LawTalkers - Pepper sprayed for public safety.

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- - Pepper sprayed for public safety. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863)

Hank Chinaski

12-15-2011 03:05 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 463681)

Yes, I'm looking for evidence - real evidence - that startups will manufacture here instead of elsewhere. A start up that is going to manufacture needs enough money to build a plant; it can't be wholly unfunded. So I don't buy the idea that lack of funds drive one to the US rather than China or Mexico. Fugee's point, that IP protection might, is a better one, but I don't think that drives that many manufacturing decisions. How would we figure that out? What kind of evidence might be useful? And what does that say about the motivational impact of tax cuts?

By the way, I think any focus on manufacturing jobs is a bit counterintuitive. If we're going to create jobs in the US, it won't be in manufacturing. but it's your point, I'll stick to it.

here's the evidence. I've worked with several. I've told you what they do.

You want real of evidence of what a hypothetical person might do in a hypothetical situation? Really?

Adder

12-15-2011 03:08 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 463684)

here's the evidence. I've worked with several. I've told you what they do.

You want real of evidence of what a hypothetical person might do in a hypothetical situation? Really?

I've seen clients acquire start ups who have as well too. But the ones I'm thinking of are med tech, who have additional reasons for preferring domestic manufacturing.

Tyrone Slothrop

12-15-2011 03:25 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.

The world is short of safe assets:

http://delong.typepad.com/.a/6a00e55...d729879970d-pi

In this world, less government borrowing makes the problem even worse.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

12-15-2011 03:49 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 463684)

here's the evidence. I've worked with several. I've told you what they do.

You want real of evidence of what a hypothetical person might do in a hypothetical situation? Really?

How about some statistics?

Based on my incredible experience, to which you pay justifiable homage, any of those garage startups doing local manufacturing will, once they get real money, likely consider moving the real jobs overseas. They may create more jobs by keeping their legal work with you and stimulating hiring at your firm.

Hank Chinaski

12-15-2011 03:55 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 463687)

95% of the start up companies I've worked with initially have US manufacturing.

sgtclub

12-15-2011 03:56 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 463686)

The world is short of safe assets:

http://delong.typepad.com/.a/6a00e55...d729879970d-pi

In this world, less government borrowing makes the problem even worse.

I actually think it makes it better.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

12-15-2011 04:00 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 463688)

95% of the start up companies I've worked with initially have US manufacturing.

Hmmm. We just don't have manufacturing startups around here. Maybe 5% of the ones I've worked with manufacture something. Startups do research, program software, or set up web sites. But, I am glad there are some somewhere, and that they are creating that thriving Detroit economy.

Adder

12-15-2011 04:06 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtclub (Post 463689)

I actually think it makes it better.

How?

Tyrone Slothrop

12-15-2011 04:06 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtclub (Post 463689)

I actually think it makes it better.

Why?

futbol fan

12-15-2011 04:08 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 463688)

95% of the start up companies I've worked with initially have US manufacturing.

I know we're arguing about startups now, and we all like startups, but if the question is how do we create the greatest number of sustainable jobs, Blodgett also says this:

Quote:

Entrepreneurs and investors start and fund companies, which is important. But what actually creates self-sustaining jobs and a growing economy is customers who want and can pay for companies' products and services. Without these customers, there's no job creation."

I wonder if there are figures about how many jobs are created each year by start-ups, as opposed to how many by established companies hiring to meet greater consumer demand, where such jobs are created, etc.

I am not being coy, just lazy.

sgtclub

12-15-2011 04:23 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 463691)

How?

Borrowing costs for government are lower and excess cash eventually moves into other assets. I'm assuming the market believes we are passed the end of the world scenario.

Sidd Finch

12-15-2011 04:32 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 463653)

assume a new company started to make a widget that is better than existing widgets. a new company is less likely to send manufacturing off-shore. the new widget might convince consumers they need to upgrade so they spend money they might not otherwise spend?

I hate to ask you a serious question, but how does cutting public sector jobs make it less likely that someone will offshore jobs?

If the cuts result in tax cuts, then maybe. But we have a long, long way to go before cutting public sector jobs will allow for tax cuts, rather than just deficit reductions.

And we'd have to reduce taxes a very long way to make widget-building cheaper here than in Vietnam. Like, to a negative number.

Sidd Finch

12-15-2011 04:39 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtclub (Post 463655)

Lowering tax rates = (a) more cash in the hands of consumers to buy stuff and (b) more cash available to invest in business.

I don't know any person, rich or poor, that doesn't want "more". If you took their tax rate to 0%, it is not as though they are going to be content to put the money under a mattress. EVERYONE wants return and the money needs to go in some investment in order to get it. Conversely, there are numerous people out there that don't have wealth or don't have enough wealth and want to create it, and they need cash to do that. So the "rich" person chasing return joins with the worker bee to form an enterprise to create wealth and that enterprise, in turn, needs to hire people. This is a very simplistic version of what is going on at a much more complex level everyday.

Or, the rich person invests in China.

sgtclub

12-15-2011 04:45 PM

Re: Islands in the stream

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 463696)

Or, the rich person invests in China.

They will still most likely do it through a US company in one way or another.

Tyrone Slothrop

12-15-2011 04:50 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtclub (Post 463694)

Borrowing costs for government are lower...

True, but that doesn't make a difference for the economy.

Quote:

...and excess cash eventually moves into other assets.

Once again, you're assuming that there are good investment opportunities out there, limited only availability of capital. But that's not the world we're living in right. People want to save, not invest, because the world looks risky and they don't see good opportunities to invest in. Because there's no demand.

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