LawTalkers - We will never agree on this and therefore it is pointless to talk about!

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Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

01-27-2009 05:54 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 379208)

CNN

Why doesn't the Senate make its own interpretation of the 17th amendment, and require that any temporary appointment made lasts no longer than 90 (or 180) days, and refuse to seat anyone appointed under broader authority?

alternatively, why not refuse to count for seniority purposes any time served in the senate prior to an actual election.

Atticus Grinch

01-27-2009 05:55 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

[ignore]

Adder

01-27-2009 05:56 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 379206)

So you're saying elections are a sham that simply allow voters to choose between the party elite's hand-picked favorite son or daughter?

I don't think one needs to reach that conclusion to believe that the standard for an appointment need not be any different than the standard for an election.

That said, are you arguing that elections aren't typically about picking between the party elite's hand-picked favorite son or daughter?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

01-27-2009 05:58 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379211)

My post-partisan persona dislikes that calculus. No offence. HOw about good government for good government's sake, not one party's advantage over the other.....? Am I too idealistic?

I'm a party person.

Adder

01-27-2009 05:59 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 379210)

Wellstone was a professor of political science, so I don't think he works in your analogy.

TM

Context is key. GGG said he preferred his senators to have been served in elective office so they had some practice as political operator within the government.

Wellstone's area of scholarship, and his community organizing are certainly relevant experience, but they don't exactly fit was GGG was looking for.

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 06:02 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 379202)

So you objected when Gov. Ventura appointed Dean Barkley to fill out Wellstone's term? Or was his experience as repeat third party candidate and advisor to the Ventura campaign enough to meet your standard?

As a concept I dislike it, but it was six years ago, in a state, the politics of which, I neither care much about nor follow (sorry), and the appointed term, if I am reading Wiki correctly lasted for a couple of months......

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 06:05 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 379204)

No.

Was that "no" meant to imply that it is common for someone's first political office to be an appointment rather than an election? If so, do you have a cite?

Or was it meant here to imply that there is no some substantive difference between an election and appointment? If so, why do we seem to favour democratic elections as opposed to oligarchy? Or maybe we, the collective don't...I however, do.

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 06:07 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 379212)

.....elected ...... which I contend is healthier than appointment, t.

2. Should we end it here and meet for a zinfandel? Ty, you game?

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 06:10 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 379208)

CNN

In concept I support it, wholeheartedly. Of course, I have to read the text and make sure he doesn;t try to insert any earmarks.....

Adder

01-27-2009 06:11 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379224)

The latter, although there are examples of the former too, although the only ones I can think of are largely honorific and temporary (like Muriel Humphrey and Dean Barkley). But I agree it isn't common.

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 06:12 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 379221)

I'm a party person.

Me too.......but. I guess we define 'party' differently.....

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 06:15 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 379227)

I knew that there were examples, but I was talking about what was common, on which we agree, and I am now taking a sip of my zin, a DCubed, an '05 Brown vinyard, out of my Riedel bordeaux stem.

On appointment versus election, I favour democratic elections, rather than nepotism and legacy, but I guess Russ Feingold and I are in the minourity there.

Adder

01-27-2009 06:34 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379229)

On appointment versus election, I favour democratic elections, rather than nepotism and legacy, but I guess Russ Feingold and I are in the minourity there.

Feel free to jump to this conclusion, but the question was whether a different standard applied to an appointment verus and election.

I agree that a special election is preferable to an appointment.

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 06:46 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 379230)

Feel free to jump to this conclusion, but the question was whether a different standard applied to an appointment verus and election.

I agree that a special election is preferable to an appointment.

I am drinking my zin again.

mommylawyer

01-27-2009 07:11 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 379203)

You don't pahk a cah in the rivah, you pahk your cah in the ocean.

Not if your at hahvahd.....

mommylawyer

01-27-2009 07:13 PM

Re: The Geithner Defense

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 379205)

Already being hauled out:

KERIK EYES 'GEITHNER' TAX BREAK

"In new court papers, the former police commissioner complains that the feds want to send him to prison for the same sort of problems that officials overlooked in Geithner, whom the Senate confirmed yesterday as treasury secretary."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01272009...eak_152201.htm

Isn't the IRS typically more lenienent when they don't have to sue you to get their money? I am not a tax attorney but it makes sense to me....

mommylawyer

01-27-2009 07:19 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379209)

Sounds like intro to middling positions. Not really a foundation for an appointment as a US Senator.

Didn't suggest it was, just noted that she could have been on the beach in Gay Head instead of working what sounds lik eyour basic entry level position. If that was the extent of her adult worklife, well your point would make more sense. But she started at the bottom and before she left for law school she wasn't where she started.....

mommylawyer

01-27-2009 07:26 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379229)

I actually agree with you regard to elections, but that isn't the current law.

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 07:45 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommylawyer (Post 379238)

I actually agree with you regard to elections, but that isn't the current law.

Understood.

FWIW, that's why I am boycotting on residing in NY. Maybe with the Feingold amendment the horizons of empire state residency will be opened to me..........although I think WA makes better wine......and coffee.

Tyrone Slothrop

01-27-2009 07:45 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 379217)

That might be a good thing from a policy perspective, but I think it does violence to the word "interpretation" -- ah, irony!

Quote:

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of each State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.

Tyrone Slothrop

01-27-2009 07:47 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379225)

2. Should we end it here and meet for a zinfandel? Ty, you game?

Game on.

Except that I am presently drinking a Bell's Winter White Ale.

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 07:50 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommylawyer (Post 379237)

I am willing to stipulate that she certainly has some ammo to make a case for herself in 2010. Good on her. Against anyone but Gillibrand, in a D primary, I would probably root for her just out of my love the underdog, which, she then would be.

Does the affair with Pinchy help or hurt her?

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 07:54 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 379241)

Game on.

Except that I am presently drinking a Bell's Winter White Ale.

In the traditions I can suppourt category, every Monday night, over the last couple of months, including but not limited to last nite, I end the drinking portion of the evening.......at least the drinking portion before the dancing portion, with a Gouden Carolus Noel......which I have pimped at LT before. It gives me a tingle up my right leg, like Obama did to Chris Matthews, except without the homoerotic imagery, nttawwt.

Adder

01-27-2009 09:32 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 379241)

Game on.

Except that I am presently drinking a Bell's Winter White Ale.

Haitian rum.

Adder

01-27-2009 09:34 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379244)

I enjoyed some Belgian brews just last night. While I didn't have the Noel myself, I believe one of my drinking mates did.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

01-27-2009 09:38 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 379240)

That might be a good thing from a policy perspective, but I think it does violence to the word "interpretation" -- ah, irony!

Quote:

That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

So the Senate has no power to determine what constitutes a "temporary" appointment? A state could then hold no special election for 5 years and 11 months, and have a "temporary" appointment? Why couldn't the Senate define temporary in the way I suggest?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

01-27-2009 09:39 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommylawyer (Post 379234)

Not if your at hahvahd.....

Ted Kennedy H'56.

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 09:56 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 379246)

I enjoyed some Belgian brews just last night. While I didn't have the Noel myself, I believe one of my drinking mates did.

Its good stuff. I started with some Saxo Blonde and worked my way to the Noel.

Wine tonite. Eventually.........if I gtf outta here soon.

Penske_Account

01-27-2009 09:57 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 379248)

Ted Kennedy H'56.

Didn't he get kicked out for cheating?

Hank Chinaski

01-27-2009 10:34 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 379241)

Game on.

Except that I am presently drinking a Bell's Winter White Ale.

if I had balls i would be Bell's Trademark attorney. My K-zoo friends say the WWA is Elvis' fave, but I'm sure you've heard that.

Hank Chinaski

01-27-2009 10:40 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 379212)

Mary Bono (R-Ca)
Lindy Boggs (D-La)
Jo Ann Emerson (R-Mo)
Lois Capps (D-Ca)
Doris Matsui (D-Ca)

These women were, however, elected following the deaths of their incumbent spouses, which I contend is healthier than appointment, though personally I can't see myself voting for a candidate who pledged to carry out the so-called legacy of anyone. That sounds like a prescription for trouble.

they were all qualified by injection?

Tyrone Slothrop

01-27-2009 10:43 PM

Congratulations!

You are the 43rd most loathsome person in the United States, 2008:

Quote:

Charges: You think it’s your patriotic duty to spend money you don’t have on crap you don’t need. You think Hillary lost because of sexism, when it’s actually because she’s just a bad liar. You think Iraq is better off now than before we invaded, and don’t understand why they’re so ungrateful. You think Tim Russert was a great journalist. You’re hopping mad about an auto industry bailout that cost a squirt of piss compared to a Wall Street heist of galactic dimensions, due to a housing crash you somehow have blamed on minorities. It took you six years to figure out what a tool Bush is, but you think Obama will make it all better. You deem it hunky dory that we conduct national policy debates via 8-second clips from “The View.” You think God zapped humans into existence a few thousand years ago, although your appendix and wisdom teeth disagree. You like watching vicious assholes insult each other on TV. You support gun rights, because firing one gives you a chubby. You cuddle falsehoods and resent enlightenment. You think the fact that 43% of whites could stomach voting for an incredibly charismatic and eloquent light-skinned black guy who was raised by white people means racism is over. You think progressive taxation is socialism. 1 in 100 of you are in jail, and you think it should be more. You are shallow, inconsiderate, afraid, brand-conscious, sedentary, and totally self-obsessed. You are American.

Exhibit A: You’re more upset by Miley Cyrus’s glamour shots than the fact that you are a grown adult who is upset about Miley Cyrus.

Sentence: Invaded and occupied by Canada; all military units busy overseas without enough fuel to get back.

Tyrone Slothrop

01-27-2009 10:45 PM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 379247)

In all the states at issue lately, the state legislature didn't do that. They just let the governor make an appointment. Where's the room for the Senate to "interpret"?

sgtclub

01-28-2009 12:43 AM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 379203)

You don't pahk a cah in the rivah, you pahk your cah in the ocean.

You do if you're a Kennedy

mommylawyer

01-28-2009 08:09 AM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379242)

Haven't read anything credible on it so can't comment one way or the other...

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

01-28-2009 08:11 AM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske_Account (Post 379250)

Didn't he get kicked out for cheating?

Yes, but he was readmitted. He started in 1950. So the years of his actual Harvard education are a bit vague, like Hank's.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

01-28-2009 08:12 AM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 379255)

In all the states at issue lately, the state legislature didn't do that. They just let the governor make an appointment. Where's the room for the Senate to "interpret"?

In each of the states, they're going nearly two years before the next actual election (Illinois, NY, Del., Colo.). "Temporary shall mean until a special election is feasible, which is presumed to be feasible within 180 days"

mommylawyer

01-28-2009 08:15 AM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 379248)

Ted Kennedy H'56.

but he wasn't pahking in Ceenbridge, he was on the Vinyahd.....

In Ceenbridge, all yah haeve is the Chahles

ack... getting back the pike so I can talk normally

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

01-28-2009 09:21 AM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 379264)

Yes, but he was readmitted. He started in 1950. So the years of his actual Harvard education are a bit vague, like Hank's.

Vague Harvard years, drinking issues, weight problem .... have we ever seen Teddy and Hank together?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

01-28-2009 09:50 AM

Blinded Me With Science!

Apparently, government scientists spend Bush years watching porn.

Well, what else did they have to do?

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