LawTalkers
Page 18 of 126 « First 81617 18 19202868118 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

LawTalkers (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/index.php)
-   Politics (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=883)

Replaced_Texan 03-13-2019 01:59 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521444)
So, my son is a drug addict (not opiates thank goodness). So the wife and I have been going to something called Families Anonymous. It's a 12 step program that attempts to give one tools to deal with issues. The 12 steps for FA track the AA 12 steps, but are directed to the family instead of the addict.

Step 4 is take an inventory- AA for the addict. FA is for the parents- the inventory is listing faults you need to work on, then step 5+ you start dealing with fixing that shit.

I was just looking at the worksheet for it. It says everyone can list faults in others. It paraphrased what most people say, like we all sit and listen to others in the meetings listing their faults thinking "Yeah, you're right, that is a fault you have." But then we say, "ourselves, we really got nothing wrong."

Then it gives some techniques to work through getting to your list. One is "list a strength then list a fault," kind of sugar coating. Then once you're done, it again paraphrases, "what were we afraid of? admitting we got some work to do wasn't so bad after all."

Anyhoo it kind of tracked what typically happens when a white person is accused of racism- "yes those people are racist, but me, you know I'm not." But then it helped take the next step. There should be a worksheet to help people get through accepting their own racism.
I'm really sorry that you and your family are going through this. It sounds, though, that you're doing what you can to get through it.

That's pretty fascinating about the inability to see wrong in ourselves.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 02:06 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521325)
The NY AG won’t do shit. That’s blustering.
How's that again?

Quote:
Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort was indicted by a New York state grand jury on mortgage fraud charges Wednesday, immediately after being sentenced to more than 7 years in prison in D.C. federal court.

The case is being brought by Manhattan District Attorney, Cy Vance, Jr.

Manafort is charged with 16 separate counts in New York state, including mortgage fraud, conspiracy, and falsifying business records.

In a statement, Vance said that a grand jury investigation begun in March 2017 had “yielded serious criminal charges for which the defendant has not been held accountable.”

Speculation has mounted that Trump could pardon his former campaign chairman on the federal charges, and Vance had been looking at state charges as a way to thwart Trump’s pardon.

Manafort is expected to object to the state charges on double jeopardy grounds.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...s-in-manhattan

Hank Chinaski 03-13-2019 02:18 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 521445)
I'm really sorry that you and your family are going through this. It sounds, though, that you're doing what you can to get through it.
Didn't post it for sympathy, but thank you. The way it goes is that the worst is BEFORE you start dealing with it. Denial and bald hope are when it is hardest.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 02:46 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521444)
So, my son is a drug addict (not opiates thank goodness). So the wife and I have been going to something called Families Anonymous. It's a 12 step program that attempts to give one tools to deal with issues. The 12 steps for FA track the AA 12 steps, but are directed to the family instead of the addict.

Step 4 is take an inventory- AA for the addict. FA is for the parents- the inventory is listing faults you need to work on, then step 5+ you start dealing with fixing that shit.

I was just looking at the worksheet for it. It says everyone can list faults in others. It paraphrased what most people say, like we all sit and listen to others in the meetings listing their faults thinking "Yeah, you're right, that is a fault you have." But then we say, "ourselves, we really got nothing wrong."

Then it gives some techniques to work through getting to your list. One is "list a strength then list a fault," kind of sugar coating. Then once you're done, it again paraphrases, "what were we afraid of? admitting we got some work to do wasn't so bad after all."

Anyhoo it kind of tracked what typically happens when a white person is accused of racism- "yes those people are racist, but me, you know I'm not." But then it helped take the next step. There should be a worksheet to help people get through accepting their own racism.
Sorry to hear you're going through that issue. I hope it goes well and your child conquers the problem as quickly and completely as possible. That's got to be horribly painful.

There should be a worksheet to explain institutional racism. I don't think a lot of people understand how that works or how it's defined, which is a big part of the disconnect. There really are two forms of racism. One is personally acting or harboring racist views. Another is the societal structures all around us that perpetuate it. I think a lot of people confuse the two. I also think a lot of people accuse a person of being racist when the better way to state it without facing pushback would be to say "you're part of a racist system." If you get society, broadly, to accept that fact, who cares whether someone quibbles with whether he himself is personally a racist.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 02:50 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521446)
Fuck. First, I was wrong. Second, that's fucking insane. That office has prostituted itself for political reasons. I hope it blows up in their faces.

Manafort's a human snotball, no doubt. But the most vile of people don't deserve to be made pawns in a political game like this. An NY's citizens deserve better than a DA who injects himself into political battles. They already have an idiot mayor and governor doing that for them.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 02:52 PM
Re: Who Cares About Felicity Huffman, Biglaw is Involved
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 521443)
Doesn't that depend on whether you went to a school that cares about its honor code or whether instead you went to Dartmouth?
Hey! I work with some fine Darmouth folk. Say what you will -- they know how to have a good time.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 02:52 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521448)
There really are two forms of racism. One is personally acting or harboring racist views. Another is the societal structures all around us that perpetuate it. I think a lot of people confuse the two. I also think a lot of people accuse a person of being racist when the better way to state it without facing pushback would be to say "you're part of a racist system." If you get society, broadly, to accept that fact, who cares whether someone quibbles with whether he himself is personally a racist.
I think what you are missing is that people -- in particular, white people, but really all people -- do an awful lot to perpetuate racism even if they don't personally act out of or harbor what you would call racist views. Societal structures are not made of stucco or brick -- they are people, acting consciously. They may not realize that they are perpetuating racism, but they are.

Someone who is willing broadly to accept that societal structures, broadly, are racist but who disagrees that he or she is personally involved in that is someone who is in denial and who will be part of the problem, not part of a solution.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 02:53 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521441)
Except we get to enjoy the fruits of our vote for those years.
Game, set, match.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 02:56 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521449)
Fuck. First, I was wrong. Second, that's fucking insane. That office has prostituted itself for political reasons. I hope it blows up in their faces.

Manafort's a human snotball, no doubt. But the most vile of people don't deserve to be made pawns in a political game like this. An NY's citizens deserve better than a DA who injects himself into political battles. They already have an idiot mayor and governor doing that for them.
Dude, he defrauded people. A lot. He's a criminal. If he is being prosecuted a second time for the same crime, the Double Jeopardy Clause should protect him. Cyrus Vance clearly doesn't think that's the case.

He's not a pawn in a political game. He got away with a lot of crimes for a long time. Then he got found out.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 02:56 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521452)
Game, set, match.
The UK has been enjoying Brexit in its own special way.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 03:07 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521451)
I think what you are missing is that people -- in particular, white people, but really all people -- do an awful lot to perpetuate racism even if they don't personally act out of or harbor what you would call racist views. Societal structures are not made of stucco or brick -- they are people, acting consciously. They may not realize that they are perpetuating racism, but they are.

Someone who is willing broadly to accept that societal structures, broadly, are racist but who disagrees that he or she is personally involved in that is someone who is in denial and who will be part of the problem, not part of a solution.
There's a semantic bridge you're attempting to cross which no one ever will.

Call someone a racist and you have accused him of something personally. Say to someone, "you are part of a racist system" and you are accusing someone of being part of something so big that he may not fully realize how and to what extent he is perpetuating that system. (And really, there is no way to ever know that answer.)

I think certain people want the license to call others "racist" because it gets the point across as brutally as possible. I understand the desire to do that. But a lot of the racist impacts of a racist society are caused by people who have no idea they are supporting racist societal structures. Saying, "you're a racist" to these people confuses them, or offends them. In either case, no constructive dialogue is had.

But if you say, "society is racist and you're part of society, so you're part of this system," people are forced to think. And if you get them thinking, rather than deflecting, you're already engaged in a constructive dialogue. If they think honestly about it, they'll realize the statement is true.

Sometimes, brevity is not the best way to convey a point. I've personally used the "racist system" explanation with diehard old, white Republicans and they'll grudgingly say, "I see that." Call one of them a racist and they'll dig in and fight. Even I will still dig in and fight if you call me racist. Why? Because it's a lazy way to say a more complex thing. And it's often employed by people who like its shock value. Even as a purveyor of hyperbole and an aficionado of provocateurs, I can't abide it. It's too obvious a bait, too transparent an attempt to create a linguistic knockout punch.

And the silly argument that to bristle at it is to prove white fragility insults my intellect. I'm happy to engage insult and hyperbole all day long. I actually enjoy it. But it had better be really well crafted, and not the sort of thing a sophomoric sort could wield as a cudgel.

Many people use the term in good faith. I think the people here do so generally. But among the pundits, and in the internet circles where this stuff is discussed, the term is defaulted to by people who think it's the debate equivalent of a .44 Magnum. They overuse it, and what's overused inevitably loses all bite.

Safire would agree with me.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 03:18 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521453)
Dude, he defrauded people. A lot. He's a criminal. If he is being prosecuted a second time for the same crime, the Double Jeopardy Clause should protect him. Cyrus Vance clearly doesn't think that's the case.

He's not a pawn in a political game. He got away with a lot of crimes for a long time. Then he got found out.
This would not happen but for who he is and but for the fact that Trump and NY are in a form of political war. And NY is run by Democrats.

This indictment is a vile and despicable as its target. In a perfect world, Trump would have actual billions, and commit tens of millions to beating the shit out Vance on behalf of Manafort.

In an even better world, this creates precedent allowing for the defense of selective prosecution. And the ethics investigation of Vance's office, and Cuomo's minions who put them up to this.

Pretty Little Flower 03-13-2019 05:11 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521456)
This would not happen but for who he is and but for the fact that Trump and NY are in a form of political war. And NY is run by Democrats.

This indictment is a vile and despicable as its target. In a perfect world, Trump would have actual billions, and commit tens of millions to beating the shit out Vance on behalf of Manafort.

In an even better world, this creates precedent allowing for the defense of selective prosecution. And the ethics investigation of Vance's office, and Cuomo's minions who put them up to this.
I don't understand why everyone isn't jumping in to join you in your righteous condemnation of the injustice being foisted upon Manafort. I'm concerned I may have jumped the gun when I placed my initial and sizeable order of "Free Paul" t-shirts (tanks for the ladies!).

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 05:22 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521455)
There's a semantic bridge you're attempting to cross which no one ever will.

Call someone a racist and you have accused him of something personally. Say to someone, "you are part of a racist system" and you are accusing someone of being part of something so big that he may not fully realize how and to what extent he is perpetuating that system. (And really, there is no way to ever know that answer.)

I think certain people want the license to call others "racist" because it gets the point across as brutally as possible. I understand the desire to do that. But a lot of the racist impacts of a racist society are caused by people who have no idea they are supporting racist societal structures. Saying, "you're a racist" to these people confuses them, or offends them. In either case, no constructive dialogue is had.

But if you say, "society is racist and you're part of society, so you're part of this system," people are forced to think. And if you get them thinking, rather than deflecting, you're already engaged in a constructive dialogue. If they think honestly about it, they'll realize the statement is true.

Sometimes, brevity is not the best way to convey a point. I've personally used the "racist system" explanation with diehard old, white Republicans and they'll grudgingly say, "I see that." Call one of them a racist and they'll dig in and fight. Even I will still dig in and fight if you call me racist. Why? Because it's a lazy way to say a more complex thing. And it's often employed by people who like its shock value. Even as a purveyor of hyperbole and an aficionado of provocateurs, I can't abide it. It's too obvious a bait, too transparent an attempt to create a linguistic knockout punch.

And the silly argument that to bristle at it is to prove white fragility insults my intellect. I'm happy to engage insult and hyperbole all day long. I actually enjoy it. But it had better be really well crafted, and not the sort of thing a sophomoric sort could wield as a cudgel.

Many people use the term in good faith. I think the people here do so generally. But among the pundits, and in the internet circles where this stuff is discussed, the term is defaulted to by people who think it's the debate equivalent of a .44 Magnum. They overuse it, and what's overused inevitably loses all bite.

Safire would agree with me.
Thank you for proving my points, but it really didn't need that many words. White people like you don't want to hear that they do racist stuff, and resist it by saying that racism is something that other people are, but that they are not. They may not realize that they are perpetuating racism, but they are. Someone who is willing broadly to accept that societal structures, broadly, are racist but who disagrees that he or she is personally involved in that is someone who is in denial and who will be part of the problem, not part of a solution.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 05:32 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521456)
This would not happen but for who he is and but for the fact that Trump and NY are in a form of political war. And NY is run by Democrats.
That's crap. When you take a prominent role in national politics, you sign up for more scrutiny than you would otherwise get. That goes with the turf. No one forced Manafort to take the job of being Trump's campaign manager, but it is hardly a surprise that his business dealings then got a lot more attention. He committed a bunch of crimes to which he had no defense.

Quote:
This indictment is a vile and despicable as its target. In a perfect world, Trump would have actual billions, and commit tens of millions to beating the shit out Vance on behalf of Manafort.

In an even better world, this creates precedent allowing for the defense of selective prosecution. And the ethics investigation of Vance's office, and Cuomo's minions who put them up to this.
That's just nonsense. If you think that a sleaze like Manafort should be able to defraud people and get away with it, you should say so. Because that's what you're suggesting.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 05:34 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521458)
Thank you for proving my points, but it really didn't need that many words. White people like you don't want to hear that they do racist stuff, and resist it by saying that racism is something that other people are, but that they are not. They may not realize that they are perpetuating racism, but they are. Someone who is willing broadly to accept that societal structures, broadly, are racist but who disagrees that he or she is personally involved in that is someone who is in denial and who will be part of the problem, not part of a solution.
And by "a solution," I do not mean trying to convince the rest of society that the word "racist" should only be used to describe someone who is conscious of his or her bigotry.

Pretty Little Flower 03-13-2019 05:47 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521459)
That's crap. When you take a prominent role in national politics, you sign up for more scrutiny than you would otherwise get. That goes with the turf. No one forced Manafort to take the job of being Trump's campaign manager, but it is hardly a surprise that his business dealings then got a lot more attention. He committed a bunch of crimes to which he had no defense.



That's just nonsense. If you think that a sleaze like Manafort should be able to defraud people and get away with it, you should say so. Because that's what you're suggesting.
Um, so I'm putting you down as a "No" on the shirt.

Replaced_Texan 03-13-2019 05:48 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Is this the type of thing that one gets disbarred for or are there so many lawyers doing this sort of thing it'd deplete the profession?

https://abovethelaw.com/2019/03/will...sions-scandal/

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 06:48 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521458)
Thank you for proving my points, but it really didn't need that many words. White people like you don't want to hear that they do racist stuff, and resist it by saying that racism is something that other people are, but that they are not. They may not realize that they are perpetuating racism, but they are. Someone who is willing broadly to accept that societal structures, broadly, are racist but who disagrees that he or she is personally involved in that is someone who is in denial and who will be part of the problem, not part of a solution.
What racist stuff do I do? Or, what racist stuff do you do?

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 06:49 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 521462)
Is this the type of thing that one gets disbarred for or are there so many lawyers doing this sort of thing it'd deplete the profession?

https://abovethelaw.com/2019/03/will...sions-scandal/
Yes and probably.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 07:08 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521459)
That's crap. When you take a prominent role in national politics, you sign up for more scrutiny than you would otherwise get. That goes with the turf. No one forced Manafort to take the job of being Trump's campaign manager, but it is hardly a surprise that his business dealings then got a lot more attention. He committed a bunch of crimes to which he had no defense.



That's just nonsense. If you think that a sleaze like Manafort should be able to defraud people and get away with it, you should say so. Because that's what you're suggesting.
I’m fine with writing Manafort off on a caveat emptor basis. Man has terrible risk avoidance instinct. Foolish.

But that’s an analysis based on a notion that right and wrong are concepts for plebes, and the real rule of life is one must be shrewd with his cost/benefit analyses. You suggested earlier that Manafort did something bad and so deserved what gets. These aren’t mutually exclusive standards, but if he is where he is because he wasn’t shrewd enough to stay out of the spotlight, you’re kind of proving my point that we don’t have a “justice” system so much as a nihilistic property protection system, and Manafort walked afoul of some very powerful political forces who’d have never looked* at him but for his throwing himself into the spotlight and being aligned with a President who pissed off these powerful people. You’re acknowledging the prosecution of him is political.

I believe all politically motivated prosecutions are invalid. And the public agrees. People who go down get second chances because if “it was a political thing,” it’s considered tainted. Clinton proved this. His perjury was a technical crime only, excused as a product of a vile political prosecution.

ETA: * Looked at him further. Recall, an earlier investigation of him was closed in 2011. It was only revived because he became a target for Mueller.

Hank Chinaski 03-13-2019 07:23 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 521462)
Is this the type of thing that one gets disbarred for or are there so many lawyers doing this sort of thing it'd deplete the profession?

https://abovethelaw.com/2019/03/will...sions-scandal/
So when he called it was already a setup? What is the Fed entrapment test?

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 08:09 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521463)
What racist stuff do I do? Or, what racist stuff do you do?
I'm not playing this game where we pretend to talk about this issue but each of us use the same words to mean different things so that we can talk past each other.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-13-2019 08:12 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521465)
I’m fine with writing Manafort off on a caveat emptor basis. Man has terrible risk avoidance instinct. Foolish.

But that’s an analysis based on a notion that right and wrong are concepts for plebes, and the real rule of life is one must be shrewd with his cost/benefit analyses. You suggested earlier that Manafort did something bad and so deserved what gets. These aren’t mutually exclusive standards, but if he is where he is because he wasn’t shrewd enough to stay out of the spotlight, you’re kind of proving my point that we don’t have a “justice” system so much as a nihilistic property protection system, and Manafort walked afoul of some very powerful political forces who’d have never looked* at him but for his throwing himself into the spotlight and being aligned with a President who pissed off these powerful people. You’re acknowledging the prosecution of him is political.
No, that's shite. I do not believe that Mueller is political. I believe that Mueller is trying to run a non-partisan, non-political investigation into what he sees as genuine crimes and national security threats. I believe this in part because Mueller is a Republican, and also because he has never been much of a partisan. I believe that the targets of his investigation committed real crimes and know this, and are trying to escape justice by complaining that the investigation and prosecutions are political, partly because Trump supporters will believe it. What's a shame is that you believe it too.

Hank Chinaski 03-13-2019 08:19 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521467)
I'm not playing this game where we pretend to talk about this issue but each of us use the same words to mean different things so that we can talk past each other.
Smh

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 08:45 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521467)
I'm not playing this game where we pretend to talk about this issue but each of us use the same words to mean different things so that we can talk past each other.
Nihil dicit.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 10:10 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521468)
No, that's shite. I do not believe that Mueller is political. I believe that Mueller is trying to run a non-partisan, non-political investigation into what he sees as genuine crimes and national security threats. I believe this in part because Mueller is a Republican, and also because he has never been much of a partisan. I believe that the targets of his investigation committed real crimes and know this, and are trying to escape justice by complaining that the investigation and prosecutions are political, partly because Trump supporters will believe it. What's a shame is that you believe it too.
Many people commit all sorts of real crimes and are never prosecuted. Manafort has been convicted of crimes for which the DOJ abandoned investigations previously. And then he pled out on “collusion” offenses because he’s illiquid (feds lock up your assets and preclude borrowing with their forfeiture claims). Caveat emptor applies. But “justice”? You went there. The word “justice system” is a joke to any sane person near it.

Here’s how the feds win: They outspend you and freeze your assets. That’s your “justice” system in a tweet.

I’d shovel shit before I’d prosecute anyone. I don’t fear karma or believe in any laws of the universe, but even with that thinking, I fear an angry god would do the worst to me to me for being involved in “taking folks out” in our “justice system.”

It’s like being a Cowboys fan, or rooting for the Empire in Star Wars.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-13-2019 10:12 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521469)
Smh
How are you racist? What racist acts or thoughts do you engage in every day? Ty’s ducking. What say you?

Tyrone Slothrop 03-14-2019 01:13 AM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521469)
Smh
So much hate indeed.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-14-2019 01:14 AM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521471)
Many people commit all sorts of real crimes and are never prosecuted. Manafort has been convicted of crimes for which the DOJ abandoned investigations previously. And then he pled out on “collusion” offenses because he’s illiquid (feds lock up your assets and preclude borrowing with their forfeiture claims). Caveat emptor applies. But “justice”? You went there. The word “justice system” is a joke to any sane person near it.

Here’s how the feds win: They outspend you and freeze your assets. That’s your “justice” system in a tweet.

I’d shovel shit before I’d prosecute anyone. I don’t fear karma or believe in any laws of the universe, but even with that thinking, I fear an angry god would do the worst to me to me for being involved in “taking folks out” in our “justice system.”

It’s like being a Cowboys fan, or rooting for the Empire in Star Wars.
See how quickly you gave up the pretense that the prosecution was political? That was easy!

sebastian_dangerfield 03-14-2019 08:27 AM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521473)
So much hate indeed.
I am still interested in hearing some of the examples of acts or omissions in which you, me, or Hank engage in every day which are racist. Just some examples. That’s all.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-14-2019 08:30 AM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521474)
See how quickly you gave up the pretense that the prosecution was political? That was easy!
You’ve developed this Trumpian tic, in which you read something, apprehend exactly what it is stating, and then nevertheless claim, Without explanation, that it says something else which directly supports your point.

I think you need to stop reading about the man. He’s wearing off on you.

Hank Chinaski 03-14-2019 12:12 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521472)
How are you racist? What racist acts or thoughts do you engage in every day? Ty’s ducking. What say you?
I was SMH'ing Ty saying he refuses to engage in you two talking past each other. But the next time I see myself doing something I'll mention it.

Pretty Little Flower 03-14-2019 12:26 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521477)
I was SMH'ing Ty saying he refuses to engage in you two talking past each other. But the next time I see myself doing something I'll mention it.
I am the least racist person.

Hank Chinaski 03-14-2019 12:39 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 521478)
I am the least racist person.
Not me. I'll have something pretty soon.

Pretty Little Flower 03-14-2019 12:47 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521479)
Not me.
Well, that's obvious. If I am the "least racist" person, that means you are, at best, the "second least racist."

Tyrone Slothrop 03-14-2019 01:03 PM
Re: Downward Departures for Gout
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521476)
You’ve developed this Trumpian tic, in which you read something, apprehend exactly what it is stating, and then nevertheless claim, Without explanation, that it says something else which directly supports your point.

I think you need to stop reading about the man. He’s wearing off on you.
You said the prosecution of Manafort was political. I disagreed. You then said this:

Quote:
Many people commit all sorts of real crimes and are never prosecuted. Manafort has been convicted of crimes for which the DOJ abandoned investigations previously. And then he pled out on “collusion” offenses because he’s illiquid (feds lock up your assets and preclude borrowing with their forfeiture claims). Caveat emptor applies. But “justice”? You went there. The word “justice system” is a joke to any sane person near it.

Here’s how the feds win: They outspend you and freeze your assets. That’s your “justice” system in a tweet.

I’d shovel shit before I’d prosecute anyone. I don’t fear karma or believe in any laws of the universe, but even with that thinking, I fear an angry god would do the worst to me to me for being involved in “taking folks out” in our “justice system.”

It’s like being a Cowboys fan, or rooting for the Empire in Star Wars.
You said that Manafort was prosecuted for crimes for which other people aren't, and that he had trouble because he ran out of money to defend himself, which isn't "justice."

What you say about Manafort -- he got prosecuted for something others don't get prosecuted for, he couldn't get a fair trail because he didn't have the resources that the government did -- could be said about just about any criminal defendant anywhere. Manafort has far more resources than most criminal defendants, so why you pick that score on which to plead sympathy for him is baffling. And the notion that DOJ just passes on prosecuting money laundering is, uh, peculiar. Lots of people may get away with those crimes because they don't get caught, but they also don't chose the sort of public life Manafort chose.

I get that you have a distrust of prosecutors and a sympathy for the little guy. Manafort is the furthest thing from a little guy, though. He made many of his millions installing a kleptocrat and Russian tool in Ukraine, a man who murdered dissenters before he was overthrown. If you're going to sympathize with people oppressed by the criminal justice system, is there room in your heart for the people who were oppressed by Viktor Yanukovych? If you want to find something in this story that looks like the Empire, turn your eyes to Ukraine. Manafort is no Skywalker, dude.

Note what you didn't say: That Mueller's prosecution of Manafort is political. I wasn't responding to what you said, but to what you didn't say, which was telling. You don't really think that. It's just lorem ipsum.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-14-2019 01:09 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521475)
I am still interested in hearing some of the examples of acts or omissions in which you, me, or Hank engage in every day which are racist. Just some examples. That’s all.
A few posts ago, you said, "There's a semantic bridge you're attempting to cross which no one ever will." Do you really not understand how people like the three of us help perpetuate racial inequality or are you just bristling at the semantics of calling that "racism." Usually, your schtick is, you are as woke as the next guy about how society is, but you refuse to call anyone "racist" if you can't prove that they are consciously and intentionally bigoted. Is it just a semantic bridge, or do you have a different view of society? Which is it?

sebastian_dangerfield 03-14-2019 02:22 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521482)
A few posts ago, you said, "There's a semantic bridge you're attempting to cross which no one ever will." Do you really not understand how people like the three of us help perpetuate racial inequality or are you just bristling at the semantics of calling that "racism." Usually, your schtick is, you are as woke as the next guy about how society is, but you refuse to call anyone "racist" if you can't prove that they are consciously and intentionally bigoted. Is it just a semantic bridge, or do you have a different view of society? Which is it?
I want to know how you think you, me, or Hank perpetuate racism. I just want a few concrete examples of ways in which we do this. Nothing exhaustive. Just a few specific acts or omissions.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-14-2019 02:39 PM
Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521483)
I want to know how you think you, me, or Hank perpetuate racism. I just want a few concrete examples of ways in which we do this. Nothing exhaustive. Just a few specific acts or omissions.
And I want an answer to my question, and a pony, neither or which it appears I will get.

I worked in the government for a while. When I did, I was involved in hiring. There was a process and I played my little part in it, and I'd like to think my input was better than average, but it's a process that historically resulting in a pretty white workforce in my agency, and I didn't do anything to change that. You can characterize that as an act or as an omission, and you can bicker about my state of mind, but at the end of the day you have an institution which has pretty much always hired fewer ethnic minorities than it should, and I played my part in perpetuating that.

OK, now you answer my questions.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:26 PM.
Page 18 of 126 « First 81617 18 19202868118 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Hosted By: URLJet.com