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-   -   It was the wrong thread (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573)

LessinSF 03-26-2011 11:02 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
nice tease in an otherwise typical example of bad journalism. where are the details?!?!!?

Penske 2.0 03-26-2011 11:32 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 450326)
nice tease in an otherwise typical example of bad journalism. where are the details?!?!!?

It's the ABA Journal...crap by definition, no?

Icky Thump 03-27-2011 07:40 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 450328)
It's the ABA Journal...crap by definition, no?

Crap stolen from the crap LA Times

Penske 2.0 04-01-2011 12:52 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 450329)

When I moved to LA back in the early 90s, the LAT was what inspired me to give up my daily print newspaper read. Its toilet paper. But triple ply compared to what has been and still gets put out in most other American cities (excepting NY and DC).

Hank Chinaski 04-15-2011 10:09 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
http://www.theonion.com/articles/jus...-gloves,19987/

Penske 2.0 04-16-2011 07:26 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 451436)

This reminds me of a funny scalia photoshoppe i have in my files.....lol


http://maureenholland.files.wordpres...s_the_word.jpg

LessinSF 04-29-2011 02:22 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Cormac Carney, weak-ass Federal Judge here in CA, finds that the DOJ (attorney David Hardy in particular) lied to him and defended itself under the theory that it can deceive the Court in the interest of national security, and DOES NOTHING. http://www.mainjustice.com/files/201...rney-Order.pdf

Adder 04-29-2011 02:57 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 452129)
Cormac Carney, weak-ass Federal Judge here in CA, finds that the DOJ (attorney David Hardy in particular) lied to him and defended itself under the theory that it can deceive the Court in the interest of national security, and DOES NOTHING. http://www.mainjustice.com/files/201...rney-Order.pdf

One would think that at least referral for bar discipline would be in order. Perhaps the ACLU will take care of that.

Atticus Grinch 04-29-2011 08:43 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 452129)
Cormac Carney, weak-ass Federal Judge here in CA, finds that the DOJ (attorney David Hardy in particular) lied to him and defended itself under the theory that it can deceive the Court in the interest of national security, and DOES NOTHING. http://www.mainjustice.com/files/201...rney-Order.pdf

Where does it say David M. Hardy is a lawyer? Clients lie, and when the judge says "the Government" misled the court, he doesn't necessarily mean the AUSA -- he means the DOJ.

Also, I've seen the mischief that can be caused when a judge determines on the limited record presented in a trial that an attorney committed misconduct. Trial court judges are sometimes wrong about what happened in the world because we keep them in the dark and feed them shit for the purpose of growing mushrooms.

DOJ might have done serious wrong here but the plausible non-shitty alternatives haven't been ruled out. Maybe that's why no Rule 11.

ETA: "The notion that Congress would implicitly authorize an agency to mislead one branch of government and, at the same time, expressly prohibit withholding information from another co-equal branch is illogical." All I can say is LOL.

LessinSF 04-30-2011 05:59 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 452165)
Where does it say David M. Hardy is a lawyer? Clients lie, and when the judge says "the Government" misled the court, he doesn't necessarily mean the AUSA -- he means the DOJ.

Also, I've seen the mischief that can be caused when a judge determines on the limited record presented in a trial that an attorney committed misconduct. Trial court judges are sometimes wrong about what happened in the world because we keep them in the dark and feed them shit for the purpose of growing mushrooms.

DOJ might have done serious wrong here but the plausible non-shitty alternatives haven't been ruled out. Maybe that's why no Rule 11.

ETA: "The notion that Congress would implicitly authorize an agency to mislead one branch of government and, at the same time, expressly prohibit withholding information from another co-equal branch is illogical." All I can say is LOL.

You are right - "David M. Hardy, Section Chief of the Record/Information Dissemination Section, Records Management Division at the FBI" was the perjurer (putting aside any DOJ attorneys who were in on it.)

ETA: I have been in courts that interpret Rule 11 (Fed and following State courts like WA and NV) to mean that the attorney herself by signing a pleading is representing that they have done an adequate independent investigation of the facts alleged by their clients/declarants such that they are not merely signing off on a fraud on the court. I have seen relatively severe sanctions imposed on attorneys who "just took their client's word" at face value as to making an allegation, subject to be proved or disproved, and the language of the rule supports the position, to wit: that "to the best of the [attorney's] knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances" ...

i.e. you have a duty to try, reasonably, to figure out if your client is lying before you put it in a pleading and have them sign a dec. Here, I suspect Mr. Hardy would have told the DOJ (had they asked) that he was a lying sack of shit ( I also believe they knew it when they drafted his Dec.) Ergo, Rule 11 sanctions, if not bar discilpine, by any judge with a set of balls or sense of ethics.

Hank Chinaski 04-30-2011 08:45 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 452169)
You are right - "David M. Hardy, Section Chief of the Record/Information Dissemination Section, Records Management Division at the FBI" was the perjurer (putting aside any DOJ attorneys who were in on it.)

ETA: I have been in courts that interpret Rule 11 (Fed and following State courts like WA and NV) to mean that the attorney herself by signing a pleading is representing that they have done an adequate independent investigation of the facts alleged by their clients/declarants such that they are not merely signing off on a fraud on the court. I have seen relatively severe sanctions imposed on attorneys who "just took their client's word" at face value as to making an allegation, subject to be proved or disproved, and the language of the rule supports the position, to wit: that "to the best of the [attorney's] knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances" ...

i.e. you have a duty to try, reasonably, to figure out if your client is lying before you put it in a pleading and have them sign a dec. Here, I suspect Mr. Hardy would have told the DOJ (had they asked) that he was a lying sack of shit ( I also believe they knew it when they drafted his Dec.) Ergo, Rule 11 sanctions, if not bar discilpine, by any judge with a set of balls or sense of ethics.

The Obama White House operates Gitmo prison in the Face of contrary orders from Article 3 Courts. Why do you think it would give a shit if some Judge sanctioned DOJ? the offender would probably be promoted.

Adder 04-30-2011 08:47 AM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 452171)
The Obama White House operates Gitmo prison in the Face of contrary orders from Article 3 Courts.

Cite?

Adder 05-03-2011 11:55 AM

Maryland
 
Anyone have a local counsel recommendation for a litigator in Baltimore?

Please assume Maurice Levy is conflicted out.

Fugee 05-11-2011 10:47 AM

Gayer than a sweet-smelling jockstrap
 
Maybe it's a Cheesehead thing, but I've never heard the phrase this judge used.

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/05/judge...ng-jock-strap/

I'm not even sure what it means.

Hank Chinaski 05-23-2011 05:38 PM

Re: It was the wrong thread
 
and you know some associate who has to sit quietly at the counsel table had to draft this, and he knew he was threatening to ruin the only thing that made his time there bearable.


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