Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were speaking satirically.

Wonking
 

Not too bad for two weeks away, eh?

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

I'm not saying that the working conditions are comparable, but how is forcing employees to work off the clock not fucking them out of money? Isn't that exactly what it is?

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

Sorry for my lack of clarity. I wasn't trying to minimize what happened at Walmart. And , yes, forcing people to work off the clock is most definitely an example of fucking the workers out of money.

But working at a big box retailer is very different from working in a nail salon. At least places like Walmart pretend to obey the wage and hours laws. Maybe it's just the apparent willful disregard of those laws by the salon owners (as described in the article) that got to me. And the fact that, even when the workers win, they never collect. Anyway, Earnest Not Bob will try to get off of the topic.

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

Of course it is if they're hourly employees. It's different for salaried employees, but they know walking in that they're getting fucked.

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

I have no energy to post about the truth here, it would take paragraphs because of the level of ignorance on this board. The main point of ignorance being the image that the people going in for cheap manis are wall street bankers. it is the poor shopping at the places fucking the poor that cause the issue. Once the poor decided to buy stuff not made by US paid labor then the rest became inevitable. And it all started when Pa steel workers and Cali electronics workers decided they should buy Asian made cars. Once others bought Asian steel it was suddenly an issue; Where can I buy an American made TV?

I won't engage again, unless someone here posts something more than kumbayah.

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

Right. Because it's "libs" who believe that all illegal immigrants should be deported, and fear of deportation is the reason why illegals can't report this sort of mistreatment.

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

Part of the reason why so many people are in that situation is that Walmart targets and destroys small businesses and then hires a few people in each of the areas it destroys, pays them peanuts, and calls itself a job-creator.

TM

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

It also forces its suppliers to cut their prices so much there is little but to send manufacturing to China and otherwise knock down salaries. Walmart doesn't just fuck with its employees, it fucks with other company's employees.

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

I don't disagree with you about the biggest fans of cheap goods and services being working class/lower middle class/whatever term you prefer. I also think that the law of unintended consequences applies pretty broadly, and that laws or rules passed with Kumbayah intentions can hurt those it was meant to protect and/or others who were not really targets of the law one way or another. You suggest, I think, that many aspects of Obamacare do this because of your experience with your firm's health insurance. I think that you may be wrong, but it's too early to tell. Or that the bad stuff you are seeing is attributable to other causes, or that the carriers could choose to screw your plan next year even if the ACA was never passed, etc. But you raise a fair point on this.

But while i see that demand for cheap manicures in some part helps create a market for corner cutting regulations to keep the price at $10, I just don't see how the law of unintended consequences applies to the nail salons - do you have a regulation or law in mind that has hurt the salon workers?

Also, I think it's too simple to say that customer choice of cars in the 1970s caused our current situation - though I agree that the shift for Chevy to Toyota was in the mix. But I'm old enough to remember that Detroit didn't really want to put out smaller and more fuel efficient cars, and the ones they did at first (Pinto, Vega) sucked. And while many would blame the unions for cost issues leading to crappy cars, it wasn't the guys and gals in places like Flint who were designing or marketing cars. They didn't create the mantra of "planned obsolescence" which was a business scheme that guaranteed that my mom's Maverick would break down and need replacement in 4 years, while Mr. Johnson's Datsun kept running like a clock until the salt-drenched winter roads of the Ancestral Homeland caused the body of the poor thing (a B-210, I think) to disintegrate at 150,000 miles.

But at some point, the American consumer became less interested in buying American, and I think the last TV made in the US was by Zenith in the early 1980s. You are completely correct that the loss of American manufacturing (and the jobs it provided) is the root of the problem.

I can't buy a TV made in the USA anymore, but I can buy shoes (Allen Edmond), suits (Hickey Freeman or Hart Shaffner & Marks), and sometimes shirts (Nordstrom, Brooks Brothers - but look at label). But even that is hard, because thanks to Casino Jack and Tom DeLay, swear-shops on certain Pacific Islands have the right to use the "Made in USA" label. And thanks to my dad and uncles, I've mostly owned cars/SUVs from one of the Ford brands (though I think some were made in Canada, but that's practically same, right?).

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

Yes! I meant to mention this. There was a great article about this regarding a lamp company (I think) that stopped making things in the US after Walmart became a customer. If my memory is correct, they wait until you are dependent upon them buying the product from you before they start suggesting ways to cut costs. Bad. They claim they stopped this, but ...

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

Did it? Or did non-American choices just arrive to compete?

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

Oh, you mean like those Toyotas built in Tennessee and the Hondas from Ohio, right?

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

Agreed.

That's why I think we need to change our entire agricultural policy to stop subsidizing hedgerow-to-hedgerow corn and beans and start subsidizing a resurgence in the family farm.

Re: I'm too appalled for a lyrical re line.
 

That's their long-term strategy with local sources. Kind of like how the pusher always gives you the first taste for free.