the kiss of death
 

The fundies fuck BOYS, Sidd... BOYS. Thats why thhey hate the gays so much. Those suave bastards are taking up all the good meat.

london bombings
 

Right. Perfect timing for an "are we more safe after Iraq" discussion. You'd instead announce to a nation currently grieving over the loss of innocents that it's their fault b/c they caused Muslims to hate them even more than before Iraq. Brilliant.

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

Which will get clawed back when you try to terminate the qualified plans, while maintaining your own fat-cat pensions.

Motherfucker, I hate greedy executives. WTF, why have nonqual plans. Just fucking save the buckets of cash you get paid. There's no god-given right to tax deferral.

london bombings
 

I never bought the "flypaper" theory, but it seems to me we're stuck with the occupation. Once you invade a country, you have a responsibility to its citizens to provide basic security. You can't just kick their army's ass and leave the country in anarchy. If we left now, Iraq would be the next Afghanistan.

I guess that about says it all about the blowjob skillz of former beauty queens from Texas.

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

I don't understand why anyone gets a pension in the first place (other than those to which they contribute, which I do understand). Why should anyone get paid again for work they've already gotten paid for? Goofy idea past its time.

Why do govt workers get a pension after 25 years of service? Aren't we trying to move the retirment age UP? WTF?

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

Yes, well, work on the greater evil first -- bloated executive pensions dragging down companies.

In a more serious answer, the cut in pay I took going in house was, at least to me, partially offset by a fairly generous match that is 100% vested immediately, and a non-stingy pension. I'm pretty sure, absent some major changes on the planet (which, based on the bombings this morning, are not imminent in the least), that if they were to freeze the pension they would increase the match so as to make up for it.

ETA can gov't workers commence their pensions after 25 years? Or do they just have some fucking incredibly long vesting schedule? I'll be entitled to some tiny amount (at age 65) after I'm here 5 years, or when they freeze the plan, whichever comes first.

Note to anyone who might work where I work who has figured out who I am -- to my knowledge, there have been no discussions of discontinuing the pension plans.

EATA for Ty, I think GM is clawing back $235 million or something from the already underfunded PBGC. Whoo hoo!

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

The same could be said for any non-cash employment benefit, no? The pension doesn't materialize out of thin air. It's part of a compensation package--some immediate, some deferred, some non-cash. Now, I know as a GA, it's supposed to be all cash, all now; but some rational people, who look at the longer term as well as tax consequences, may prefer compensation in other forms and at other times.

As for gov't, it depends on the gov't, and it depends on what promise was made to the workers.

london bombings
 

Your feelings regarding the appropriate timing for this discussion are even more irrelevant than usual, and your predictable distortion of my comments is even more offensive. Kudos!

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

The fed'l gov't plan (civilian--military is different) vests after 5 years, but can't be taken until 62 (or 65, or somewhere thereabouts). And it's based on some formula, that i think is pretty typical, like avg. of high-three years of salary, multiplied by years of service divided by 30, and then maybe there's some further multiplier reflecting whether you took it early or late.

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

Oh God. Exec pensions are insane. The problem I see with pensions is not directly economic, but subtle. They tend to create swaths of middle management in large orgs/govt who just phone in work for the last decade winding toward their retirement package. They're standing around for the last years of their careers like Randall Tex Cobb at the end of the Holmes fight, just waiting it out... Thats fucked up. Those people should be eviscerated from the work force. All they do is steal cash from the mouths of people below them. The problem is the inverse pyramid in corporate life. From the midddle up its a mess of pigs at a traugh, and not enough accountability.

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

How does a pension cause that, rather than just salary? If someone can get away with doing the minimum because s/he's no longer concerned about promotions, etc., then why would a pension change that, assuming the person is not in a position to earn more money toward retirement by billing or selling a lot and earning big bonuses?

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

They may be able to commence at 55 if they have enough service? And retire from active service? That's not uncommon. Actually, it's pretty damn common, not just not uncommon.

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

Companies don't like to terminate people who are one or two years away from being eligible for an unreduced early retirement benefit. It's also harder to get a job at 55, or 60, or whatever, so they don't want to leave.

OTOH, the dangling apple of unreduced early retirement benefit is keeping someone I really need* around here for a couple more years, even though her boss treats her like shit.

*who I guess could be characterized as middle management, but who works her fucking ass off.

Why oh why did my 401k die?
 

Of course it will. Because he will be old, and will vote, and the younger folk, who will be paying for his retirement, won't.