Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 496316)

I definitely agree that the restrictions here, and the costs they've created, are a huge problem. Geography is part of it -- SF could never sprawl out like Houston (though I suppose San Jose could) -- but so are bad policies.

But 10% increase in nationwide growth, from having one large city (NY) and two small ones (SF/San Jose) change their building codes? That seems ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 496318)

That's what they said about the internet. "A giant electronic web with virtually unlimited free pornography and funny cat pictures/videos? That seems ridiculous."

Who seems ridiculous now????

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 496319)

Think about it: If we didn't have the Internet, then all of those low-cost contract lawyers and programmers in India wouldn't be nearly as well-positioned. We'd be keeping those jobs here.

Of course, if housing were cheaper in SF, then we could move them all here, pay them 10 times what they make in India, and the work would stay with them. At least, that's what a study showed.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 496320)

If we didn't have the internet, housing would be a helluva lot cheaper in SF, and there would be hordes of what are now 20 something nerdy anti-social male programmers out joining bike gangs in Texas for something to do.

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 496321)

No, because if housing were cheaper here, we'd all be rolling in money. Didn't you read Ty's link?

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 496317)

You like to assign one reason to this: Wages are higher because productivity is higher here.

Okay. I guess waiters, janitors, and bus drivers here are sooo much more productive than in any other city. And lawyers, I-bankers, and hedge fund managers too. So I'll accept the higher productivity as a reason (even as I contradict its existence by posting here).

But, I tend to believe that there are multiple factors that contribute to most results. So, higher costs are one such factor: You have to offer people higher salaries here, because otherwise they won't come here, where they know that $x doesn't go nearly as far as it goes where they live.

I also believe that the higher costs are a bigger part of this. Perhaps your workplace is one where the powers-that-be think, "We could pay our secretaries $x per year, but they are just so much more productive in the Bay Area that we'll voluntarily pay them 150% of $x." I think most businesses would prefer to pay as little as they can to retain people -- and that "as little as" number moves higher when the cost of living moves higher.

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 496318)

That's what they said about the internet. "A giant electronic web with virtually unlimited free pornography and funny cat pictures/videos? That seems ridiculous."

Who seems ridiculous now????

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 496317)

You like to assign one reason to this: Wages are higher because productivity is higher here.

Okay. I guess waiters, janitors, and bus drivers here are sooo much more productive than in any other city. And lawyers, I-bankers, and hedge fund managers too. So I'll accept the higher productivity as a reason (even as I contradict its existence by posting here).

But, I tend to believe that there are multiple factors that contribute to most results. So, higher costs are one such factor: You have to offer people higher salaries here, because otherwise they won't come here, where they know that $x doesn't go nearly as far as it goes where they live.

I also believe that the higher costs are a bigger part of this. Perhaps your workplace is one where the powers-that-be think, "We could pay our secretaries $x per year, but they are just so much more productive in the Bay Area that we'll voluntarily pay them 150% of $x." I think most businesses would prefer to pay as little as they can to retain people -- and that "as little as" number moves higher when the cost of living moves higher.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 496307)

But this underlies the problem with the 10% number. All those people need to come from somewhere. SF's loss was Texas' gain, and Goddess knows Texas needs all the help it can get.

That said, I appreciate any attack on zoning, that mindless machine of homogenization that curses our land.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 496325)

In DC there were too few sane people to populate service jobs.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 496327)

This has been a problem in Australia the last few years. Anyone could make great money in mining minerals to ship to China, so coffee shops and the like could not keep staff.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 496323)

Since the authors come from Chicago and Berkeley, they probably have anticipated the sorts of reactions you outline -- but I don't know, because I haven't had time to read the thing yet. Maybe on my long flight tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 496329)

John Yoo is from Berkeley. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by sidd finch (Post 496329)

john yoo is from berkeley. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 496330)

Excellent point. But Chicago is widely known for turning out brilliant thinkers.