Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

You cannot be fucking serious.

TM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

No it is not. Compare to black unemployment numbers.

The Trumpsters are not leading a revolt of the proletariat. This is the entitled lumpenbourgeoisie, and it's as much about racism as economics.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I'd missed that (Sebby's "People who've been forced to wait longer because massive #s of new entrants have started consuming services have a right to be pissed.").

That is a stunning statement on Trumpism today. Let's face it, what he means is "I'm comfortable, but if I have to wait a little longer because black folks are also getting benefits, I'm going to be pissed." This is the voice of the entitled lumpenbourgeoisie I was just referring to - his problem is not with whether or not he gets healthcare, it is the fact that he doesn't want others to have it if he even imagines it might inconvenience him.

At the end of the day, this narcissistic self-involved parasites identify with Trump, and that's the core of it.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

We've litigated that dull topic to death. Let's agree to disagree. I see your point. You do not see mine.

Perhaps a better assessment of Ty's accusation is, he's claiming I'm a Calvinist. It's pretty clear I'm about as fond of the Protestant Work Ethic as I am of colonoscopies. It's a total bullshit scam sold to workers to keep them complacent -- a device for controlling the masses on par with the Catholic Church's bit about poor workers inheriting a better "kingdom" after death.

I have no gripe with anyone getting subsidized health insurance. Just don't sell it to me like it's not a welfare program. It is. And there's nothing wrong with that. If we wish to vote for such benefits and entitlements, then they should be given to people. If the majority of us do not wish to give them, they should not be given. But have an honest debate. We're all adults here. If you tell me we can give the poor health care for a modest increase in taxes, I'm inclined to hear you out. Tell me you've a formula to give 46 million people largely if not near-exclusively subsidized coverage while creating offsetting cost savings and I'm smelling bullshit.

We need to break the fourth wall in politics. It's always pretexts. Why not just say, "I think we need to help people who can't afford health insurance more than we are. Here's how I plan to do it." Let the other side of the debate make the case for not wanting to do so. This would work a fuckload better than making the argument one about whether the ACA delivered real cost savings or was a Byzantine mess of creative accounting.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

A guy who's paid in to his system for years has an honest complaint when the govt goes and tinkers with it, causing him to suffer any inconvenience. That may sound cold to you, but he does have a legitimate gripe.

I haven't seen a doctor in god knows how long. And when I last had a health issue, I paid out of pocket to a concierge practice. I've paid into the system, and then some. And it's real dollars. I actually a paid a year of premiums for my family out of pocket. Have you done that? What's your contribution been? Oh, right -- your employer paying for it for you.

Have you ever negotiated a policy on behalf of your workers? Missed your own paycheck to cover the costs of a group policy because your promised your employees an excellent plan and didn't break your word?

And you call me a parasite? By the way, you need to get off your moral high horse if you want to go around throwing "bourgeoisie" at others. Moral harrumphing is a hallmark of that caste, in which you fit more than perfectly than any other poster on this board.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Damn. He totally just called you a blood-sucking parasite. Damn. And you fire back by calling him a clown? That's weak, bro. You can do better. Go for the motherfucking jugular!

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

OMG, you edited your post as I was writing this. Now you're not even calling him a clown? You're politely asking him to get off his moral high horse? He called you a blood sucking parasite!!!! The type of thing that latches onto your ass and drinks your blood while simultaneously releasing the most vile of diseases into your system. And you fight back with a horse metaphor? Lets pick this shit up because I'm nodding off here.

Re:Maybe next time he'll call me a member of the Global Elite!!!
 

Dude, he called me bourgeois. That was his crushing repartee.

Do you know how hard I've worked to become a member in good standing of the bourgeoisie?

Winning!!

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

It's the fucking holidays. I'm not about to degrade the cheery spirit by calling anyone a wanna-be limousine liberal. Or tsk-tsking the use of "lumpen" as overused signalling of pseudo-intellects. I shall observe in the spirit of peace between all men that politics bring out the worst in people.

He's free to apologize for smearing me as a racist (note the insertion of "black people" in his last post), and for calling me a parasite. But even if he doesn't, I forgive him.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Pro-tip: I'm not sure how you haven't figured this out yet, but I'm about the last person in the world with whom you want to compare health care cost experiences.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Jesus, this admission only took what -- six, seven months?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

That ratio doesn't tell you anything at all -- it's apples and oranges. One is a cost and the other is a change in a rate of increase, and different people are spending the money in each case.

I believe what I said is that you were repeating a trope that explained the way a lot Trump voters think, and I still think that's true.

The ACA did a bunch of things all at once. If you are going to pretend that the things that raised revenue and saved money didn't exist, then you're never going to admit that the whole thing worked from a budget perspective. I don't get why you're so insistent that those other parts of the ACA didn't exist, or that they're not important, or something.

I decide to but a new house, and sell the one I own now. You tell me, you can't afford that house! It's much too expensive. I say, yeah, it's a lot of house, but if I sell the one I'm in then I can afford it. You reply, this deal really isn't about the old house, it's about the new house, and you can't afford the new house.

I get it. You don't like the new house. Stop pretending it has anything to do with the budget.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Thank you. Here's a pro tip for you: If you haven't paid for it for your workers, you're only addressing half of my point.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

The rate of increase in healthcare costs has been declining since the recession, and people who work on such things for a living are arguing about how much of that decline (not an absolute decline, but a decline in the rate of increase) is attributable to there recession and how much is attributable to the ACA.

I know you know all of this because you referred to it in your prior post and because you've carefully implied the recession is the key cause. So I suspect you also know that people give some credit to the ACA and some to the recession.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I don't think of Sebby as a Trump voter. But he did adamantly profess indifference to the choice between Trump and Hillary.