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Adder 06-15-2015 06:21 PM

Re: Don't tell me I'm dreaming
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 496644)
This is not really what I meant. I meant long the lines of a dedicated effort to address racial issues in a way that attempts to give kids the tools to try to make sense of it going forward.

TM

Yeah, I know. But I was struggling to find much content that race was even part of, and it's not really there. Although now that I think about it, I think we watched Mississippi Burning in one of those aforementioned pitiful history classes too.

Adder 06-15-2015 06:26 PM

Re: Together they learn to read and write.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 496645)
Back to the NYMag article re the Fieldston program, I have a sibling very involved in education, and so I was urged to read it at the time. I forget the specifics, but I remember coming away after reading it thinking that it was a great idea.

Oh, yeah, that, which I did not read, but now that you mention "Fieldston," This American Life covered it not too long ago.

Hank Chinaski 06-15-2015 06:53 PM

Re: Together they learn to read and write.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 496645)
I forget the specifics, but I remember coming away after reading it thinking that it was a great idea.

for nb to have posted this truism means this board is beyond hope.

Not Bob 06-16-2015 08:39 AM

Re: Together they learn to read and write.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 496648)
for nb to have posted this truism means this board is beyond hope.

Thank you. It was really just an excuse to (a) type "The School of Ethical Culture" and (b) throw in a "Life During Wartime" reference inspired by the punk rock street cred discussion.

ThurgreedMarshall 06-16-2015 11:44 AM

Best Piece on Dolezal Yet
 
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...RLzTI.facebook

TM

Replaced_Texan 06-16-2015 04:30 PM

Re: Best Piece on Dolezal Yet
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 496655)

I really don't understand her at all. And I'm generally sympathetic to the idea that identity is self-constructed and fluid. I'm also generally sympathetic to the idea that race/ethnicity is a construct. She seems sincere, and I think she believes her own bullshit. At the same time, the willful blindness as to how this isn't OK is really fucking hard to take.

ThurgreedMarshall 06-16-2015 05:01 PM

Re: Best Piece on Dolezal Yet
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 496666)
I really don't understand her at all. And I'm generally sympathetic to the idea that identity is self-constructed and fluid. I'm also generally sympathetic to the idea that race/ethnicity is a construct. She seems sincere, and I think she believes her own bullshit. At the same time, the willful blindness as to how this isn't OK is really fucking hard to take.

When she started talking about how hard it's been for her and how black people who are angry about what she's done don't know her, don't understand what she's been through, and how hard it's been for her, I lost any remaining ounce of sympathy I had for her. Fuck outta here with that bullshit.

And identity may be self-constructed, but racial identity is not. Cultural identity is. I agree that she seems to believe that it's okay for her to "be" black and she clearly wants to be a part of the black community. But for her to answer the question, "Are you black," with the word, "Yes," means she is completely fucking delusional and shows she doesn't understand what it means at all.

This is also a good piece, which does a better job with this than I can: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/op...imes&smtyp=cur

TM

Replaced_Texan 06-16-2015 05:43 PM

Re: Best Piece on Dolezal Yet
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 496668)
When she started talking about how hard it's been for her and how black people who are angry about what she's done don't know her, don't understand what she's been through, and how hard it's been for her, I lost any remaining ounce of sympathy I had for her. Fuck outta here with that bullshit.

And identity may be self-constructed, but racial identity is not. Cultural identity is. I agree that she seems to believe that it's okay for her to "be" black and she clearly wants to be a part of the black community. But for her to answer the question, "Are you black," with the word, "Yes," means she is completely fucking delusional and shows she doesn't understand what it means at all.

This is also a good piece, which does a better job with this than I can: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/op...imes&smtyp=cur

TM

Oh, in no way do I condone what she's doing/has done, nor do I think that she's going through something "hard". I have zero sympathy for her, but I was just pointing out that I am more likely to be sympathetic than most.

I sometimes struggle with my own identity, so I'm generally willing to give a listen to others who face the same struggle. In no way, though, does she face a struggle.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-16-2015 06:09 PM

Re: But I supported Jesse Jackson for President! Really I did.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 496668)
Stuff on white person in fancy-black-face

Wait. Am I in trouble for my avatar?

Hank Chinaski 06-18-2015 11:41 AM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/18/politi...me-court-case/ Texas is weird- the state has all this wacky right wing shit going on, like way out there- but it bans Stars and bars? RT please explain?

Sidd Finch 06-19-2015 01:51 PM

South Carolina
 
Query: Should white Americans do more to fight racism among whites, teach about racial harmony and equality, and so forth, since white people (especially those who might be inclined to severe forms of racism) tend to listen to and learn from other white people -- their family, pastors, teachers, neighbors, etc. ?

Or should I be asking what color car the shooter in South Carolina drives?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-19-2015 02:00 PM

Re: South Carolina
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 496720)
Query: Should white Americans do more to fight racism among whites, teach about racial harmony and equality, and so forth, since white people (especially those who might be inclined to severe forms of racism) tend to listen to and learn from other white people -- their family, pastors, teachers, neighbors, etc. ?

Or should I be asking what color car the shooter in South Carolina drives?

In the Wall Street Journal today I read that "[t]oday the system and philosophy of institutionalized racism identified by Dr. King no longer exists", so I'm not quite sure I know what you're talking about.

I will note that the color and make of car the shooter was driving was instrumental in his arrest, so that seems pretty relevant here. We should focus on that.

God bless South Carolina.

http://i1.huffpost.com/gen/1120498/i...FLAG-large.jpg

taxwonk 06-19-2015 02:45 PM

Re: South Carolina
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 496720)
Query: Should white Americans do more to fight racism among whites, teach about racial harmony and equality, and so forth, since white people (especially those who might be inclined to severe forms of racism) tend to listen to and learn from other white people -- their family, pastors, teachers, neighbors, etc. ?

Or should I be asking what color car the shooter in South Carolina drives?

I think the fight is ultimately going to have to be near universal. That being the case, Every opportunity for opposition, teaching, or challenge that goes unanswered prolongs the problem. That being said, I am as guilty as many people who like to think of themselves as opposed to racism have simply ignored, or uncomfortably offered up a half-hearted counter. This is even more true since I have moved out of the sheltered, almost-exclusively white enclave I grew up in. I may think some cracker is spewing ignorant bullshit when he or she knows better, but I'm not often willing to take an ass-kicking just to make the point, not to win mind you, but simply raise the issue.

Hank Chinaski 06-19-2015 05:04 PM

Re: South Carolina
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 496722)
I think the fight is ultimately going to have to be near universal. That being the case, Every opportunity for opposition, teaching, or challenge that goes unanswered prolongs the problem. That being said, I am as guilty as many people who like to think of themselves as opposed to racism have simply ignored, or uncomfortably offered up a half-hearted counter. This is even more true since I have moved out of the sheltered, almost-exclusively white enclave I grew up in. I may think some cracker is spewing ignorant bullshit when he or she knows better, but I'm not often willing to take an ass-kicking just to make the point, not to win mind you, but simply raise the issue.

Hmmm, challenging shit is hard. But I think we resolve racism in incremental steps by doing so. Each generation being a step closer. In the 20s Italians and Jews were dirt. but things changed, and while I've seen some anti-Itie hate, it was mostly harmless.

Of course that is no consolation to this week's tragedy du jour.

The WSJ story (I didn't read it but I'm assuming it was predictable) was tone deaf, but it is true that the guy being arrested is an improvement compared to the 60s. Of course, police forces themselves are still mega-racist, and to paraphrase Mr. Wolf from PF, "let's not start sucking each others dicks over this pathetic 'improvement.'"

Hank Chinaski 06-19-2015 05:05 PM

Re: South Carolina
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 496721)
In the Wall Street Journal today I read that "[t]oday the system and philosophy of institutionalized racism identified by Dr. King no longer exists", so I'm not quite sure I know what you're talking about.

I will note that the color and make of car the shooter was driving was instrumental in his arrest, so that seems pretty relevant here. We should focus on that.

God bless South Carolina.

http://i1.huffpost.com/gen/1120498/i...FLAG-large.jpg

I have a moth story on Savannah and a lady wearing the stars and bars.


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