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-   -   I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=879)

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 12-14-2016 10:00 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 504586)
"I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premium by up to $2,500 a year."

See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUd-slJc-GY

Have premiums for anyone decreased by 3000% so that they received a raise?

I think it is reasonable for normal people to understand this to be a clear promise to decrease the premium. It's not ambiguous. You can say he misspoke repeatedly, but together with the "You can keep your plan" and "You can keep your doctor" lies, seems to be more of the intentional misrepresentation to get it passed.

Even if Obamacare is not a total failure, can you understand why many feel deceived about what it is, versus how it was sold?

God, you are in the winger echo chamber. You may remember the 3000 percent was quickly corrected to 3000 dollars.

Yeah, you want to hate him. I get it.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2016 10:12 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504566)
Here's my prediction (I hope it proves wrong).

When Trump starts losing some domestic battles or embarrassing himself in one way or another, he'll get increasingly bellicose on foreign policy. His favorite targets are going to be Iran and China. They will respond to his escalation with escalation, expecting it to lead to rational discussions before anything crazy happens, but will instead get crazy. And Iran is an easier target for a bully than China.

Addressing China sooner than later may actually be a sound strategy. They are not a benign trading partner. They are intent on surpassing and supplanting while we dither. https://www.amazon.com/Hundred-Year-.../dp/1250081343 (They're demographically fucked, so I'm not sure they could ever get there, but as Remo says when he decides to kill Andy Stern in Casino, "Why take a chance?")

But I do agree with your assessment that Trump might create shiny objects in the foreign policy arena when his promises in the domestic one prove unattainable.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2016 10:28 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 504569)
So far, Trump foreign policy appears to assume the best of the Russians (who are white) and the worst of the Iranians (not white), Moslems in general (rarely white), and the Chinese (not white). Correlation is not causation, and make of that what you will.

"I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl!"

That's about all that shit commentary is worth. And that kind of talk, utterly unsupported and unsupportable, is what causes people like me - social liberals who'd otherwise be allies on many issues - to laugh at you hysterical Lefties.

By the way, Russians aren't monolithically "white." Russia is the world's largest country by land mass. They're every color you can imagine. And having that blood coursing through my veins, along with pictures of relatives from that part of the world with very tan and olive colored skin, I can say this with certainty: You are talking out of your ass.*

Were I a shmuck, I'd offer some identity politics here and suggest this thinly veiled hatred for Russians embraced by the Left is quite disturbing. That's what the clearly irony-challenged lot of idiots on the Left wallowing in those behaviors would do were Russians within their category of "Approved Victims."
________
* My great grandmother and my grandfather both looked like Afghans more than "white" Russians.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2016 10:33 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 504563)
Wait and see, but Flynn is a nutjob who seems to want it, Mattis seems to have an interest in it and Bolton will certainly not oppose. ETA: And Trump wants to tear up the deal.

Tearing up the deal and going to war are like the Beatles and Black Sabbath.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2016 10:44 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 504572)
I assume good will and bad sources. But apparently facts are passe now -- everyone can have their own.

I don't like a post-fact world any more than you, but among the basket of deplorable journalists in this cycle, there wasn't a whole lot of daylight between WaPo and Brietbart. When Bezos dictated, for selfish reasons, that his paper would take its editorial cues from HuffPo, and toil assiduously to get HRC elected, the old guard became indistinguishable from the new guard of admitted bullshit artists.

(I have to actually give the Times credit here. The Old Grey Lady was chock full of Leftist tripe, but not much more than usual. And it really was about as even handed as any major outlet. LATimes also gets kudos for printing polls showing a much closer race, despite howling criticism from Lefties.)

The post-facts world was delivered to us by media on both sides of the aisle, and if you thinking claiming this is false equivalence, you need to get the fuck out of your echo chamber. The only difference between the Left's and the Right's fake news is quality, subtlety, and delivery. The Left and the media outlets that carry its water claim to be incensed at the Right's crass, overt bullshit. Actually, they're just jealous that the Right has an audience so easily manipulated. It sucks to have to work really hard to try to cleverly manipulate everybody and fail while your competition shoots fish in a barrel.

Pretty Little Flower 12-14-2016 11:26 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504591)
I don't like a post-fact world any more than you, but among the basket of deplorable journalists in this cycle, there wasn't a whole lot of daylight between WaPo and Brietbart. When Bezos dictated, for selfish reasons, that his paper would take its editorial cues from HuffPo, and toil assiduously to get HRC elected, the old guard became indistinguishable from the new guard of admitted bullshit artists.

(I have to actually give the Times credit here. The Old Grey Lady was chock full of Leftist tripe, but not much more than usual. And it really was about as even handed as any major outlet. LATimes also gets kudos for printing polls showing a much closer race, despite howling criticism from Lefties.)

The post-facts world was delivered to us by media on both sides of the aisle, and if you thinking claiming this is false equivalence, you need to get the fuck out of your echo chamber. The only difference between the Left's and the Right's fake news is quality, subtlety, and delivery. The Left and the media outlets that carry its water claim to be incensed at the Right's crass, overt bullshit. Actually, they're just jealous that the Right has an audience so easily manipulated. It sucks to have to work really hard to try to cleverly manipulate everybody and fail while your competition shoots fish in a barrel.

I'm not going to address the substance of your post because even bothering to note that it is completely ridiculous absurdist nonsense would be the biggest waste of time and effort that I engage in all day, despite the fact that, at 3:30 p.m., I am planning on spending 15 minutes exclusively devoted to watching a Nyan Cat video loop. So yeah, I'm not touching that. Instead, I am going to ask that we all stop using the term "echo chamber." It might have been a useful metaphor for about three minutes, but now it is just lazy and meaningless and hopelessly trite. The fact that it appears in every seventh post here should be proof enough that I am mainly correct.

Adder 12-14-2016 12:01 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504588)
Addressing China sooner than later may actually be a sound strategy. They are not a benign trading partner. They are intent on surpassing and supplanting while we dither.

They are going to surpass and supplant (eventually) whether we fight a war with them or not. So let's not.

Adder 12-14-2016 12:03 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504589)
identity politics

Someone purportedly interested in liberty should read this.

Adder 12-14-2016 12:04 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504590)
Tearing up the deal and going to war are like the Beatles and Black Sabbath.

What's the appropriate analogy for one cabinet member who's advocated for it, one who has made statements that imply he's open to it and a deputy to a cabinet member with a long history of suggesting war with "bad guys?"

Adder 12-14-2016 12:05 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504591)
I don't like a post-fact world any more than you, but among the basket of deplorable journalists in this cycle, there wasn't a whole lot of daylight between WaPo and Brietbart. When Bezos dictated, for selfish reasons, that his paper would take its editorial cues from HuffPo, and toil assiduously to get HRC elected, the old guard became indistinguishable from the new guard of admitted bullshit artists.

(I have to actually give the Times credit here. The Old Grey Lady was chock full of Leftist tripe, but not much more than usual. And it really was about as even handed as any major outlet. LATimes also gets kudos for printing polls showing a much closer race, despite howling criticism from Lefties.)

The post-facts world was delivered to us by media on both sides of the aisle, and if you thinking claiming this is false equivalence, you need to get the fuck out of your echo chamber. The only difference between the Left's and the Right's fake news is quality, subtlety, and delivery. The Left and the media outlets that carry its water claim to be incensed at the Right's crass, overt bullshit. Actually, they're just jealous that the Right has an audience so easily manipulated. It sucks to have to work really hard to try to cleverly manipulate everybody and fail while your competition shoots fish in a barrel.

God, you're tiresome.

ThurgreedMarshall 12-14-2016 12:17 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504561)
If the Dems don't repay GOP obstructionism with their own, they don't deserve to ever have any kind of power. I expect and welcome them doing so because, if that's how checks and balances are going to work in our nihilist political climate, then the necessary obstructionist checks should and need to be applied by both parties.

I agree. The problem is: Democrats necessarily lose this fight because they actually care about having a working government and Republicans are okay with destroying it (or huge sections of it). Dems can't win that game of chicken. And if they can't figure out how to deliver that message, we're all fucked.

TM

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2016 12:25 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 504593)
They are going to surpass and supplant (eventually) whether we fight a war with them or not. So let's not.

This insults careful strawman builders everywhere.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2016 12:30 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 504597)
I agree. The problem is: Democrats necessarily lose this fight because they actually care about having a working government and Republicans are okay with destroying it (or huge sections of it). Dems can't win that game of chicken. And if they can't figure out how to deliver that message, we're all fucked.

TM

They don't have a choice. Their only option is to play the same game, create the mother of all crises, and then force the people to demand change.

The GOP voter rolls are awash in transfer beneficiaries and recipients of other forms of govt beneficence. When we get a truly gridlocked and broken system, they'll whine for big govt with a shrillness no one's heard before. And the Dems will be their only hope.

ThurgreedMarshall 12-14-2016 12:32 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504589)
thinly veiled hatred for Russians embraced by the Left is quite disturbing

I think there is something legitimately wrong with you. Really. Where do you get this absolute flaming bullshit?

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 12-14-2016 12:35 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504591)
I don't like a post-fact world any more than you, but among the basket of deplorable journalists in this cycle, there wasn't a whole lot of daylight between WaPo and Brietbart. When Bezos dictated, for selfish reasons, that his paper would take its editorial cues from HuffPo, and toil assiduously to get HRC elected, the old guard became indistinguishable from the new guard of admitted bullshit artists.

(I have to actually give the Times credit here. The Old Grey Lady was chock full of Leftist tripe, but not much more than usual. And it really was about as even handed as any major outlet. LATimes also gets kudos for printing polls showing a much closer race, despite howling criticism from Lefties.)

The post-facts world was delivered to us by media on both sides of the aisle, and if you thinking claiming this is false equivalence, you need to get the fuck out of your echo chamber. The only difference between the Left's and the Right's fake news is quality, subtlety, and delivery. The Left and the media outlets that carry its water claim to be incensed at the Right's crass, overt bullshit. Actually, they're just jealous that the Right has an audience so easily manipulated. It sucks to have to work really hard to try to cleverly manipulate everybody and fail while your competition shoots fish in a barrel.

No surprise, but absolutely everything in this post is pure, unadulterated drivel. It is not worth the keystrokes you wasted on drafting it.

This is a better read: ;aljksd;kflj p34iu09-uavjdksjva 034jjf[ kj j;laksdf[fa40[9 ;jalkdf890j9jaijm

TM


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