LawTalkers - Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a row

the people I've known who end up "salaried" partners are decent lawyers, but perhaps in an over-populated area of law. Always with no book. The firm could institute a policy where non-equity partners get hit in the head with a bat as they walk in the door, and they'd just buy a helmet. The comfort/security of the big firm keeps them from even considering going anywhere.

my last biglaw firm starting sucking wind a few years before I left. over about 5 years tons of people left. it got to the point that anyone with the guts to leave had. guess what was left?

Adder was still there as a permassociate, yes?

sebastian_dangerfield

11-21-2009 02:28 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 407789)

Why don't firms hire pure rainmakers? I have a buddy at a Big Four outfit who does nothing but sell. Knows nothing about how to deal with anything SarBox or accting shit at a hands on level. He demonstrated sales ability early and does nothing but wine and dine people. No billables. Why don't law firms hire guys like that to augment their rainmakers, and leave the pure lawyers to do what lawyers do? You could pay those sales guys on commission. Low overhead.

PresentTense Pirate Penske

11-21-2009 02:33 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 407795)

At a baseline its built on an fawful business model and run by people with remedial management skills and even more lacking social skills aka as colostomy pouches, most of whom have less than zero ability to evolve as either business people or human beings. In a good way, of course, no offence.

sebastian_dangerfield

11-21-2009 02:36 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by PresentTense Pirate Penske (Post 407793)

It's not as high of baseline as most of the colostomy pouches* in the biz like to think.

They/we have already proven we are suckaas for a bad product, its called a J.D.

*given the fully jumped shark that the derogatory term "douche bag" now is (with the final clearing of the shark hurdle being the recent NYTimes article on the use of the term), I have now upgraded my hipster lingo with "colostomy pouch", which seems like a more viscerally correct characterisation of those on whom I bestow it. No offence. ymmv.

1. If that's true, why not eliminate almost all associates entirely? Once a person does a thing a few dozen times, they get it. Why not have firms work like doctors' office, with "lawyer practitioners" acting like nurse practitioners. Most of the stuff is work that has little to do with having or not having a law degree. Hire a stable of paralegals and contract people with a minimal tier of partners at the top to handle the heavy lifting when it comes. That's what a lot of plaintiff's firms and smaller outfits do, with excellent results. Slices employee costs dramatically. What's a 1Y associate but a huge loss... and one who'll be an even bigger loss when he takes his training and splits to another firm or in house in a few years, just as he's becoming profitable?

2. Well, we'll have ample company in that confederacy of suckaas. 60k kids took the LSAT in Sept/Oct of this year. Highest on record.

sebastian_dangerfield

11-21-2009 02:38 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by PresentTense Pirate Penske (Post 407796)

There are smart rainmakers in the mix, and smart business people. This idea has to be gestating somewhere. It's fucking elementary Business Mgmt 101. You need a real sales force.

PresentTense Pirate Penske

11-21-2009 02:48 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 407797)

1. Its an approach some boutique firms take, but certainly a distinct minority of the business.

2. Lemmings. Just another example of the tragic failure of the educational system in America. I blame teachers' unions.

PresentTense Pirate Penske

11-21-2009 02:55 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 407798)

There are smart rainmakers in the mix, and smart business people. This idea has to be gestating somewhere. It's fucking elementary Business Mgmt 101. You need a real sales force.

The tide of inertia is powerful. Not long ago I was out drinking micro brews (Ninkasis) in Stumptown with an old pal from out east (Ollie, where were you!?!?). Harvard MBA/McKinsey guy who is now at a large company that provides services to the legal industry. He consults with managing partner types at AmLaw 50 firms and was detailing some of his recent get togethers in NY and LA. His conclusion: the legal business, at least at the biglaw level, is a dinosaur and he wouldn't have an easier time getting drywall to perform gymnastics than to get biglaw partners to introduce business mgmt 101 innovation into their firms.......ymmv(?)

Hank Chinaski

11-21-2009 03:05 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 407792)

Or get the "Here's half of your bonus - the other half comes in May" bullshit, which basically makes you an indentured servant until you grow the balls to leave the other slug of cash on the table and split.

(But I will say this - when you do quit, it's fun watching the cheap prick who screwed you grapple with the realization he played his hand badly, and will now have to deal with a row of upcoming trials w/o the only person who knew the cases intimately. Money well spent.)

i heard my old firm changed the yearly bonus into a loan that will be forgiven if you don't quit for the next year. which gives some big teeth to the don't leave now thing.

Hank Chinaski

11-21-2009 03:07 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by PresentTense Pirate Penske (Post 407794)

Adder was still there as a permassociate, yes?

school of adder, except they were all fucking each other.

Hank Chinaski

11-21-2009 03:11 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 407795)

clients won't buy service from a non-lawyer. the rainmaker can be one horrible lawyer, but he's at least got to lie and tell the client he is a JD. client is buying the guy they trust and can call, so he can go yell at the actual lawyers.

the more I'm in it the more I think who makes rain is mostly luck. my practice is pure luck- you have to be out trying to market, but most of what people do for marketing is bullshit. mostly you need to meet someone who can shift work and know them at the time they are looking to shift it.

Hank Chinaski

11-21-2009 03:12 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by PresentTense Pirate Penske (Post 407796)

thanks for having my back,:cool:

PresentTense Pirate Penske

11-21-2009 04:08 PM

Re: Nwtf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 407804)

thanks for having my back,:cool:

Who luvs ya baby.........

ltl/fb

11-21-2009 04:47 PM

Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro

At least none of y'all have people in control of all of your life, with no where to get away to.

Atticus Grinch

11-21-2009 05:17 PM

Re: instead of plating other shit they probably complained to god about the dead pota

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 407705)

He owned up to it 20 years later. And then proceeded to justify it on the ground he was too short to head it and besides, England were thieves for stealing the Falklands.

IIRC, he effectively owned up to it in the post-game press conference, which is when he came up with un poco de la cabeza de Maradona, y otro poco del mano del Díos. It was coy, but no one who heard it could have thought otherwise. It was a genius way of acknowledging that the hand of God stayed the ref's whistle, and that's the way the fucking game is played, so grow up.

Hank Chinaski

11-21-2009 05:56 PM

Re: instead of plating other shit they probably complained to god about the dead pota

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 407807)

I'm sorry, "IIRC?" you claim that is from memory?

I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit.

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