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Gattigap 01-18-2006 05:22 PM

For Hank
 
Fark is running a contest commemorating Ted Kennedy's publication of his new children's book. Some creative ones in here -- with luck, you can update the macro!

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/tjmurphy...teddysbook.jpg

Gattigap

Sexual Harassment Panda 01-18-2006 06:05 PM

Chocolate Town
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Most administrations have dead depts based upon their politics. Like most Rep administrations let EPA wither, or the way Clinton fucked the military and intelligence services. both sides probably let FEMA wither.
No, even bush praised the job James L. Witt did at FEMA under the Clinton administration. Previously, it was known as a dumping ground for political patronage appointees.

Now it's nothing like that at all.

Sexual Harassment Panda 01-18-2006 06:07 PM

For Hank
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Fark is running a contest commemorating Ted Kennedy's publication of his new children's book. Some creative ones in here -- with luck, you can update the macro!

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/tjmurphy...teddysbook.jpg

Gattigap
Is that supposed to be bush in his youthful indiscretion phase, in the lower left?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 01-18-2006 06:10 PM

For Hank
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Is that supposed to be bush in his youthful indiscretion phase, in the lower left?
I assumed Kerry.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-18-2006 06:32 PM

The bottom line on ANWAR
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Unless George Will is lying, then if your definition of a wilderness is that it has no roads, then ANWAR is no longer a wilderness.

George Will said: "although there are active oil and gas wells in at least 36 U.S. wildlife refuges"

George Will said: "Those who have and who think it is "pristine" must have visited during the 56 days a year when it is without sunlight. They missed the roads, stores, houses, military installations, airstrip and school. They did not miss seeing the trees in area 1002. There are no trees.

George Will said: Ice roads and helicopter pads, which will melt each spring, will minimize man's footprint, which will be on a 2,000-acre plot about one-fifth the size of Dulles Airport.

I actually laughed out loud when I read this. Of all the people on this board, in my humble opion, your "cites" are the least reliable. So for you to want us to take your opinion on unammed information on the net is just a little ripe. As we have tried to explain to you before, opinions from blogs do not qualify as evidence.
Sorry to disappear for a while, but my neighbor must have moved his WiFi router.

Here's what the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has said about the impact of development:

Quote:

Newer technologies that are applied today in Alaska's expanding North Slope oil fields include directional drilling that allows for multiple well heads on smaller drill pads; the re-injection of drilling wastes into the ground, which replaces surface reserve pits; better delineation of oil reserves using 3-dimensional seismic surveys, which has reduced the number of dry holes; and use of temporary ice pads and ice roads for conducting exploratory drilling and construction in the winter. As the oil fields expand east and west, additional oil reserves are consequently being tapped from smaller satellite fields that rely on the existing infrastructure at Prudhoe Bay and Kuparuk.

Although technological advances in oil and gas exploration and development have reduced some of the harmful environmental effects associated with those activities, oil and gas development remains an intrusive industrial process. The physical "footprint" of the existing North Slope oil facilities and roads covers about 10,000 acres, but the current industrial complex extends across an 800 square mile region, nearly 100 miles from east to west. It continues to grow as new oil fields are developed.

The 100-mile wide 1002 Area is located more than 30 miles from the end of the nearest pipeline and more than 50 miles from the nearest gravel road and oil support facilities. According to the U.S. Geological Survey, possible oil reserves may be located in many small accumulations in complex geological formations, rather than in one giant field as was discovered at Prudhoe Bay. Consequently, development in the 1002 Area could likely require a large number of small production sites spread across the Refuge landscape, connected by an infrastructure of roads, pipelines, power plants, processing facilities, loading docks, dormitories, airstrips, gravel pits, utility lines and landfills.

A substantial amount of water is needed for oil drilling, development, and construction of ice roads. Water needed for oil development ranges from eight to 15 million gallons over a 5-month period, according to the Bureau of Land Management. If water is not available to build ice roads, gravel is generally used. Water resources are limited in the 1002 Area. In winter, only about nine million gallons of liquid water may be available in the entire 1002 Area, which is enough to freeze into and maintain only 10 miles of ice roads. Therefore, full development may likely require a network of permanent gravel pads and roads.

Cumulative biological consequences of oil field development that may be expected in the Arctic Refuge include:
  • blocking, deflecting or disturbing wildlife
  • loss of subsistence hunting opportunities
  • increased predation by arctic fox, gulls and ravens on nesting birds due to introduction of garbage as a consistent food source
    alteration of natural drainage patterns, causing changes in vegetation
  • deposition of alkaline dust on tundra along roads, altering vegetation over a much larger area than the actual width of the road
  • local pollutant haze and acid rain from nitrogen oxides, methane and particulate matter emissions
  • contamination of soil and water from fuel and oil spills

Sorry if that's overkill to counteract the crap that Will was peddling in his op-ed column, but Spanky says my cites are unreliable -- frankly, I suspect he can't be bothered to read them, but whatever -- so I figured he'd be happier with the block-quote.

I don't understand why Spanky and Will are working so hard to avoid the obvious issues here. Lots of people oppose development of ANWR because they want the land to remain (relatively) undeveloped. Arguing, a la Will, that people who oppose developing ANWR are all a bunch of pinko collectivists is true in the same way that one might say that conservatives who support Bush's wire-tapping are fascists who want to turn America into a police state, which is to say that it's unbridled nonsense.

Why can't Will and Spanky just accept that a lot of people see a lot of benefit from leaving the land as it is?

Tyrone Slothrop 01-18-2006 06:38 PM

The bottom line on ANWAR
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Thats an overly narrow definition you're using to facilitate an argument that holds little water.

Other than in your absurd "definitional" sense, driving one road and a pipeline through the ANWR doesn't destroy its "wilderness" quality.
I think I'm fairly representing the statutory definition of wilderness.
  • The statutory definition of Wilderness is found in Section 2(c) of the Wilderness Act:

    "A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain."

You may disagree, but many, many Americans think that "driving one road and a pipeline through the ANWR" -- which I take to be a sort of lazy euphemism for the sort of extensive industrial development described by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service in my last post -- will fundamentally diminish its "wilderness" quality.

SlaveNoMore 01-18-2006 10:08 PM

The bottom line on ANWAR
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
I think I'm fairly representing the statutory definition of wilderness.
  • The statutory definition of Wilderness is found in Section 2(c) of the Wilderness Act:

    "A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain."

You may disagree, but many, many Americans think that "driving one road and a pipeline through the ANWR" -- which I take to be a sort of lazy euphemism for the sort of extensive industrial development described by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service in my last post -- will fundamentally diminish its "wilderness" quality.
You've become Atticus. I've become NFH. Oh, the humanity.

Gattigap 01-18-2006 10:36 PM

The bottom line on ANWAR
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You've become Atticus.
Well, it didn't include any reference to feces or etiquette, so we can't be positive. can we?

Quote:

I've become NFH. Oh, the humanity.
Oh. Sorry, man. Can't help you here. You're fucked.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-18-2006 10:48 PM

The bottom line on ANWAR
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You've become Atticus. I've become NFH. Oh, the humanity.
If so, I win! Woot!

Quote:

Originally posted by GA2GP
Well, it didn't include any reference to feces or etiquette, so we can't be positive. can we?
Come on -- we were talking about wilderness bed-shitting. Try to stay with me.

Gattigap 01-18-2006 10:56 PM

The bottom line on ANWAR
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally posted by GA2GP
You're so old skool. I love you, man. <*sniff*>

SlaveNoMore 01-19-2006 12:47 AM

The bottom line on FUBAR
 
Quote:

Gattigap
Can't help you here. You're fucked.
There have been so many. Did I like it?

sgtclub 01-19-2006 10:53 AM

OBL Blinks
 
  • Bin Laden Warns of Attacks, Offers Truce
    Jan 19 10:28 AM US/Eastern
    Email this story

    CAIRO, Egypt


    Al-Jazeera aired an audiotape purportedly from Osama bin Laden on Thursday, saying al-Qaida is making preparations for attacks in the United States but offering a truce to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan.

    The voice on the tape said heightened security measures in the United States are not the reason there have been no attacks there since the Sept. 11, 2001, suicide hijackings.

    Instead, the reason is "because there are operations that need preparations, and you will see them," he said.

    "Based on what I have said, it is better not to fight the Muslims on their land," he said. "We do not mind offering you a truce that is fair and long-term. ... So we can build Iraq and Afghanistan ... there is no shame in this solution because it prevents wasting of billions of dollars ... to merchants of war."

spookyfish 01-19-2006 10:57 AM

OBL Blinks
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub [list]Bin Laden Warns of Attacks, Offers Truce
Jan 19 10:28 AM US/Eastern
Email this story

CAIRO, Egypt


Al-Jazeera aired an audiotape purportedly from Osama bin Laden on Thursday, saying al-Qaida is making preparations for attacks in the United States but offering a truce to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan.

The voice on the tape said heightened security measures in the United States are not the reason there have been no attacks there since the Sept. 11, 2001, suicide hijackings.

Instead, the reason is "because there are operations that need preparations, and you will see them," he said.
Do you doubt any of this? I don't.

Quote:

"Based on what I have said, it is better not to fight the Muslims on their land," he said. "We do not mind offering you a truce that is fair and long-term. ... So we can build Iraq and Afghanistan ... there is no shame in this solution because it prevents wasting of billions of dollars ... to merchants of war."
I know he's a crazy fuck and all, but I wasn't aware he was fighting the Muslims?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 01-19-2006 11:29 AM

OBL Blinks
 
Quote:

Originally posted by spookyfish
Do you doubt any of this? I don't.

Or it could be bluster to make the US believe a truce actually has something in it for us.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 01-19-2006 11:30 AM

OBL Blinks
 
Quote:

Originally posted by spookyfish

I know he's a crazy fuck and all, but I wasn't aware he was fighting the Muslims?
I took that to mean that the US shouldn't fight them, and should instead let ObL rebuild those places to be Muslim empires led by him. If the US does that he won't attack the US.


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