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sebastian_dangerfield 12-20-2011 02:19 PM

Re: Interesting sentences
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 463775)
Krugman:

Read his recent views on China, the country which ran the mother of all stimuli. He criticizes the fact that so much cheap money sloshing around the country has gone into a real estate bubble that looks exactly like ours of 2002-2006.

Sidd Finch 12-20-2011 02:33 PM

Re: Interesting sentences
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 463809)
Read his recent views on China, the country which ran the mother of all stimuli. He criticizes the fact that so much cheap money sloshing around the country has gone into a real estate bubble that looks exactly like ours of 2002-2006.

A bubble isn't a debt crisis.

The US would need a whole lot of stimulus to approach bubble territory.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-20-2011 02:41 PM

Re: Islands in the stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ironweed (Post 463645)
This idea seems pretty uncontroversial to me, but maybe someone thinks it's wrong.

Assuming it's correct, can we all agree that it is (1) cynical and (2) wrong to advocate tax cuts for the wealthiest as a means to spur employment?

Can we also agree that laying off thousands of public sector workers in the midst of a recession in an attempt to reduce government debt is also counterproductive to job growth?

Why do so many people have their heads up their asses on this? (And I mean on both sides of the aisle, for the sensitive and delicate R participants here who feel so cruelly treated).


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/milli...#ixzz1gcgp76m5

1. He's dead right.

2. Was there ever disagreement on that? More tax cuts for the rich will deliver nothing in terms of job growth. The problem is, enhancing taxes on the rich does have a negative impact. How? Because out of necessity, when taxes are increased on the "rich," the target gets defined down to people like doctors and lawyers, and upper middle managers (there aren't enough truly rich people to tax to make a difference, and many of the truly rich can avoid tax increases anyway). Tax a doctor or lawyer an extra seven or eight grand a year, and his business a few thousand, and he'll think twice about hiring anyone, or giving much in terms of raises. That's an unfixable reality.

3. No. Laying off govt workers sensibly (getting rid of patronage hires and truly useless workers, as opposed to percentage based across the board reductions) can reduce taxes for strapped consumers, who will then spend the money. The govt worker also comes with pension costs, lifetime benefits, etc. The private sector worker does not.

4. On #2, because the GOP has done a brilliant job of selling the lie that tax cuts somehow magically increase employment, even in an economy where lack of demand from the middle class is the primary ailment. It is quite amazing. Regarding #3, the Shrink the Govt advocates don't want to argue about streamlining govt. That involves thought, which alienates most voters. They want to speak in easy absolutes, which voters like.

Fugee 12-20-2011 02:52 PM

Re: Islands in the stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 463812)
3. No. Laying off govt workers sensibly (getting rid of patronage hires and truly useless workers, as opposed to percentage based across the board reductions)

Most private companies don't know how to lay people off sensibly -- at least from the examples I've seen** -- and the government is worse about it.


**The fallback strategy in the private sector appears to be laying off X% of every department without stopping to determine whether any departments have been hiring like crazy in the past years and have lots of fat to cut while others haven't hired anyone in years and are run very leanly.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 12-20-2011 03:15 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 463807)
The reason I would ask him how he supported the Iraq war in 2003 was because it's a failing. The remainder of his work, much of it having nothing at all to do with war, is at odds with his position on Iraq. I'd also like to irritate him, as he seemed most amusing in that condition.

How you've reached the conclusion he wrote mainly about war ("all he was about") is beyond me.

And regarding Said, there was a falling out there. Consider the source.

He spent a lot of time on war - I think the only things I read by him in the last 10 years of his life were either cheering on the war or denigrating people who opoosed it. Yeah, he also wrote on stupid glitzy crap for vanity fair. I don't think I've ever made it to the second paragraph there.

Said was one of those guys who has just as colorful a way with words as Hitchens, but was oh so careful about what he said. I always admired his care in speaking - slow, but beautiful and accurate. There was a guy worth eulogizing.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 12-20-2011 03:17 PM

Re: Islands in the stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 463812)
4. On #2, because the GOP has done a brilliant job of selling the lie that tax cuts somehow magically increase employment, even in an economy where lack of demand from the middle class is the primary ailment. It is quite amazing. Regarding #3, the Shrink the Govt advocates don't want to argue about streamlining govt. That involves thought, which alienates most voters. They want to speak in easy absolutes, which voters like.

I am curious to see how the Democrats blow the chance to make hay out of the pending Tea Party Tax on Jan. 1.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-20-2011 03:43 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 463814)
He spent a lot of time on war - I think the only things I read by him in the last 10 years of his life were either cheering on the war or denigrating people who opoosed it. Yeah, he also wrote on stupid glitzy crap for vanity fair. I don't think I've ever made it to the second paragraph there.

Said was one of those guys who has just as colorful a way with words as Hitchens, but was oh so careful about what he said. I always admired his care in speaking - slow, but beautiful and accurate. There was a guy worth eulogizing.

Beautiful, I'm with you. Careful's dull. If I want that, I'll spend extra time with business acquaintances, where people are required by economic considerations to avoid insult or sharp criticism. I think it was an Amis who said, "If you can't offend, why write?" I loved Hitchens because he wrote with balls. Said will never be discussed in the same book, let alone paragraph, with someone like Mencken or Twain. Hitchens has been there for years.

He also wrote on religion (just a tad). You might be familiar with that, seeing as it occupied 50-70% of his work since 2006. And the VF articles were not on glitzy shit. VF often has a glitzy person on the cover, utilized to attract a broad audience. If this kept you from opening the magazine, I'm sorry. You've missed some of the best in-depth reporting on politics, culture, and economics of the past twenty years.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-20-2011 03:48 PM

Re: Islands in the stream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 463815)
I am curious to see how the Democrats blow the chance to make hay out of the pending Tea Party Tax on Jan. 1.

They'll let the debate shift to the Keystone Pipeline issue. The GOP will paint them as whacked environmentalists precluding cheap energy imports.

But really, there isn't much hay there. The GOP has to cave on the payroll tax. They'd get killed if the holiday were curtailed.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 12-20-2011 04:05 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 463816)
Beautiful, I'm with you. Careful's dull. If I want that, I'll spend extra time with business acquaintances, where people are required by economic considerations to avoid insult or sharp criticism. I think it was an Amis who said, "If you can't offend, why write?" I loved Hitchens because he wrote with balls. Said will never be discussed in the same book, let alone paragraph, with someone like Mencken or Twain. Hitchens has been there for years.

He also wrote on religion (just a tad). You might be familiar with that, seeing as it occupied 50-70% of his work since 2006. And the VF articles were not on glitzy shit. VF often has a glitzy person on the cover, utilized to attract a broad audience. If this kept you from opening the magazine, I'm sorry. You've missed some of the best in-depth reporting on politics, culture, and economics of the past twenty years.

You do know much of his writing on religion advocating bombing the fidels because they were responsible for so much suffering in the world?

Adder 12-20-2011 04:18 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 463818)
You do know much of his writing on religion advocating bombing the fidels because they were responsible for so much suffering in the world?

How can you possibly care so much about whether a drunken, colorful polemicist is respected in his death or not?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 12-20-2011 04:25 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 463819)
How can you possibly care so much about whether a drunken, colorful polemicist is respected in his death or not?

True, but a great thing about drunken colorful polemicists is that they do their own causes no favors. Waxing poetic on clusterbombs piercing korans was wonderful. He's like a fast-talking Sarah Pallin. I would much rather talk Hitchins than Frum.

Ever notice whether Hitchins gets quoted more by those who agree with him or disagree with him?

Hank Chinaski 12-20-2011 04:28 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 463819)
How can you possibly care so much about whether a drunken, colorful polemicist is respected in his death or not?

The moth has a podcast of him from from 1999 on its webpage. Drunk rambling.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-20-2011 05:35 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 463818)
You do know much of his writing on religion advocating bombing the fidels because they were responsible for so much suffering in the world?

God is Not Great did not, as I recall, advocate violence, but rather explained why religion causes so much violence. Yes, Hitchens did go in for a bit more Islamophobia than was warranted at times. But he experienced firsthand what Islamic nuts were capabale of doing. Rushdie, one of his best friends, had to live under armed guard for a decade because he wrote a book. I'll give the man a pass for a bit of extremism in his approach to Islam. I will not give you a pass on attempting, badly, to suggest more than a slim percentage of his work raised such views.

"Much" is a wiggle word. I know this because I frequently employ it. In the context of discussing a writer so prolific, what appears significant in terms of word count, or pages, to someone who admits he's refused to read anything but the author's war articles, is all but assuredly not. It's also amusing you'd even get into this dispute, considering your admission at the outset - that you're not well read on the subject. I don't know Said's catalog well. If I told you that, and then went on to tell you how much of his writing was this, that, or something else, you'd be right to tell me I had my head up my ass. As I'm doing here.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 12-20-2011 05:48 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 463827)
God is Not Great did not, as I recall, advocate violence, but rather explained why religion causes so much violence. Yes, Hitchens did go in for a bit more Islamophobia than was warranted at times. But he experienced firsthand what Islamic nuts were capabale of doing. Rushdie, one of his best friends, had to live under armed guard for a decade because he wrote a book. I'll give the man a pass for a bit of extremism in his approach to Islam. I will not give you a pass on attempting, badly, to suggest more than a slim percentage of his work raised such views.

"Much" is a wiggle word. I know this because I frequently employ it. In the context of discussing a writer so prolific, what appears significant in terms of word count, or pages, to someone who admits he's refused to read anything but the author's war articles, is all but assuredly not. It's also amusing you'd even get into this dispute, considering your admission at the outset - that you're not well read on the subject. I don't know Said's catalog well. If I told you that, and then went on to tell you how much of his writing was this, that, or something else, you'd be right to tell me I had my head up my ass. As I'm doing here.

Yeah, I haven't read much of his religion stuff; I read him fairly regularly back in the 80s, when he agreed with me on enough so I was often upset with him for the half-assed way he screwed things up. Over the last decade, what I know of him are the wonderful quotes that grace any good discussion of Islamaphobia or mysogyny and the stuff linked to them. Of course, he does not get quoted on a substantive discussion of Islam or women, only on the discussions of strange views toward them. But we aren't engaged in a substantive discussion of him, are we? I just threw out his clusterbomb quote when you gave me an opening and have been bullshitting with you about the ass since.

Yes, no doubt amusing; let us each find amusement where we may. One of my pet amusements is when someone suggests "firsthand" experience comes from knowing someone somewhere - such a "one of my best friends is black" basis for expertise! Did you really just go there with Hitchens and Rushdie? Such suffering! Yeah, clusterbomb them. And "a bit more" islamophobia? Yeah, right, sure.

As to reading his book, god, no thank you.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-20-2011 05:49 PM

Re: Death to Fidels Everywhere!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 463820)
True, but a great thing about drunken colorful polemicists is that they do their own causes no favors. Waxing poetic on clusterbombs piercing korans was wonderful. He's like a fast-talking Sarah Pallin. I would much rather talk Hitchins than Frum.

Ever notice whether Hitchins gets quoted more by those who agree with him or disagree with him?

If you try to slay the reader with every sentence, you will undoubtedly succeed. - Buckley (date unknown, probably horribly paraphrased, but you get the point)

That may be true, but I've wandered into stale farts more compelling than anything Frum has authored. And it isn't just his writing. He's a David Brooksian castrated centrist of the first order, but unlike Brooks, who tries to bridge the gap between left and right, all Frum can do is play the part of apologist and scold. Nobody likes a whimpering turncoat. If you're going to be traitor, do it with no regret.


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