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-   -   Pepper sprayed for public safety. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=863)

ThurgreedMarshall 09-21-2012 11:38 AM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 472655)
Even more amazing to me is that he is one of them. He pays little to nothing in federal income taxes, primarily as a result of govenrment largesse in propping up the financial house of cards he helped build. Of course, that tsunami of fucked-up=edness hasn't surfaced yet. Who will Mitt be tuning to when all those tranches of mezzanine debt start coming due and the companies Bain and Carlyle and Blackstone, etc. took private with borrowed promises and inflated growth models are forced to admit they were just joking all along.

Uh...that's the business model. Be the sponser, buy these companies using leveraged loans that banks are fighting over to give. Create 6 months of improved numbers from layoffs, consolidation and the movement of jobs to cheaper locations, and then come back to your bank syndicate to show off these numbers and start taking out more loans for dividends until you've gotten back your investment times 2 or 3 and then treat the company you just crippled with debt like garbage until it fails. That's the business model.

TM

Tyrone Slothrop 09-21-2012 12:19 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 

The GOP's problem, and our problem
.

Gattigap 09-21-2012 12:31 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Godwin's law, violated.

Explained.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-21-2012 01:01 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 472667)
Uh...that's the business model. Be the sponser, buy these companies using leveraged loans that banks are fighting over to give. Create 6 months of improved numbers from layoffs, consolidation and the movement of jobs to cheaper locations, and then come back to your bank syndicate to show off these numbers and start taking out more loans for dividends until you've gotten back your investment times 2 or 3 and then treat the company you just crippled with debt like garbage until it fails. That's the business model.

TM

Stop it. This is hard.

Wonder what the total cost of crippled companies left behind by Bain has been? Unfunded pensions? Unemployment costs?

ThurgreedMarshall 09-21-2012 01:11 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 472669)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gattigap (Post 472670)

Fantastic all-around effort, guys.

TM

Hank Chinaski 09-21-2012 01:11 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 472671)
Wonder what the total cost of crippled companies left behind by Bain has been? Unfunded pensions?

whoa whoa whoa, you make this a bad thing, then you are talking shit about Denny McClain, and then the truce is off.

Icky Thump 09-21-2012 01:14 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 472667)
Uh...that's the business model. Be the sponser, buy these companies using leveraged loans that banks are fighting over to give. Create 6 months of improved numbers from layoffs, consolidation and the movement of jobs to cheaper locations, and then come back to your bank syndicate to show off these numbers and start taking out more loans for dividends until you've gotten back your investment times 2 or 3 and then treat the company you just crippled with debt like garbage until it fails. That's the business model.

TM

Everyone with an advanced degree is in the business of wealth transfer of this sort in one way or another. America. Fuck yeah!

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-21-2012 01:38 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 472673)
whoa whoa whoa, you make this a bad thing, then you are talking shit about Denny McClain, and then the truce is off.

Hank, the rule here is bonuses when you win. This ain't the Romney campaign.

Adder 09-21-2012 02:36 PM

They must now be trying to lose
 
The Romney camp can't really think that releasing a PwC analysis of 20 years of his tax returns showing that he paid an average effective rate of 20.2%, lowest effective rates in the 13% range and 14.1% effective rate last year only because they didn't deduct all their charitable contributions could help, could they?

Why attract attention back to an issue that looks bad for them? Why give renewed reason for calls for more disclosure of tax returns? Why highlight that he pays the low effective rates everyone expected? Why highlight that he had to voluntarily give up deductions to be consistent with his prior assertion that he never paid less then 13% (it would have been 9% last year otherwise)? Why undermine your claim that marginal rates are too high by voluntarily paying higher rates? Why undermine your claim that marginal rates are too high by demonstrating that you personally never paid anything close to the highest rates?

Are they dumb or something? Do they think all of that is actually preferable to continuing to talk about the 47%? Or are they even dumber to think everyone would view this as evidence of him "paying his fair share?"

taxwonk 09-21-2012 02:41 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 472660)
of course not. the Dems wouldn't vote for anything Bush wanted to do. He tried to work with them but they were simply trying to wreck his admin, w/o worrying whether they were hurting the country. Sad.

Hello, Mr. Beohner, welcome to the PB.

taxwonk 09-21-2012 02:58 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 472667)
Uh...that's the business model. Be the sponser, buy these companies using leveraged loans that banks are fighting over to give. Create 6 months of improved numbers from layoffs, consolidation and the movement of jobs to cheaper locations, and then come back to your bank syndicate to show off these numbers and start taking out more loans for dividends until you've gotten back your investment times 2 or 3 and then treat the company you just crippled with debt like garbage until it fails. That's the business model.

TM

Yep. All that remains is to monetize the usable portion of the NOL and see if you can grease your way into a municipality creating a TIF zone your investment grade debt can go muni.

Hank Chinaski 09-21-2012 03:05 PM

Re: They must now be trying to lose
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 472680)
The Romney camp can't really think that releasing a PwC analysis of 20 years of his tax returns showing that he paid an average effective rate of 20.2%, lowest effective rates in the 13% range and 14.1% effective rate last year only because they didn't deduct all their charitable contributions could help, could they?

Why attract attention back to an issue that looks bad for them? Why give renewed reason for calls for more disclosure of tax returns? Why highlight that he pays the low effective rates everyone expected? Why highlight that he had to voluntarily give up deductions to be consistent with his prior assertion that he never paid less then 13% (it would have been 9% last year otherwise)? Why undermine your claim that marginal rates are too high by voluntarily paying higher rates? Why undermine your claim that marginal rates are too high by demonstrating that you personally never paid anything close to the highest rates?

Are they dumb or something? Do they think all of that is actually preferable to continuing to talk about the 47%? Or are they even dumber to think everyone would view this as evidence of him "paying his fair share?"

are you serious? given what he said about the 47% he had to show he paid taxes. all the speculation that he didn't, taken with him hating on people that don't, couldn't be left alone. now he can say he paid big tax bills, and he can talk shit about the 47%.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-21-2012 03:06 PM

Stop it!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 472680)
The Romney camp can't really think that releasing a PwC analysis of 20 years of his tax returns showing that he paid an average effective rate of 20.2%, lowest effective rates in the 13% range and 14.1% effective rate last year only because they didn't deduct all their charitable contributions could help, could they?

Why attract attention back to an issue that looks bad for them? Why give renewed reason for calls for more disclosure of tax returns? Why highlight that he pays the low effective rates everyone expected? Why highlight that he had to voluntarily give up deductions to be consistent with his prior assertion that he never paid less then 13% (it would have been 9% last year otherwise)? Why undermine your claim that marginal rates are too high by voluntarily paying higher rates? Why undermine your claim that marginal rates are too high by demonstrating that you personally never paid anything close to the highest rates?

Are they dumb or something? Do they think all of that is actually preferable to continuing to talk about the 47%? Or are they even dumber to think everyone would view this as evidence of him "paying his fair share?"

This is an elaborate head fake. They want Obama to talk about tax returns in the debate, and take attention away from some of the other issues.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-21-2012 03:13 PM

Re: Pepper sprayed for public safety.
 
Atrios, on this Daily Show segment:

Quote:

Good Daily Show segment. I like the inclusion of Craig T. Nelson saying, "I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? No." Because I think that quote really gets to the true core of bullshit mountain. One can never be quite sure how much conservatives believe their own bullshit, but my longstanding theory is that they believe there's some secret super generous welfare system that only black people have access to. When they had hard times, got their government handouts, their government handouts sucked. But the blahs are out there buying their t-bones and driving their cadillacs, so they must be getting the really good welfare. Nobody helped poor Craig out, because the food stamps and and welfare sucked. They don't understand that this is because food stamps and welfare do suck.
I really don't get the way these people think, but it really does seem to boil down to the idea that they deserve whatever they have, but that other people don't. It's just a politics of resentment.

Adder 09-21-2012 03:23 PM

Re: They must now be trying to lose
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 472685)
are you serious? given what he said about the 47% he had to show he paid taxes. all the speculation that he didn't, taken with him hating on people that don't, couldn't be left alone. now he can say he paid big tax bills, and he can talk shit about the 47%.

He's already asserted that he never paid less than 13%. It would have been far smarter to fall back on that assertion if need be instead of bringing back up what had been a fading issue.

ETA: And on top of that, the PwC report demonstrates that he's got all that tax information together and is just refusing to release it, once again making it look like he's got something to hide. If history has taught us one thing, it's the selective disclosure if always a very dangerous name.


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