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-   -   I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=879)

Adder 01-10-2017 11:10 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504992)
I don't see much difference between the complaints of the Trumpkins pre-election and the complaints of the Hillary fans post-election.

You see no difference between vague and fictious Trumpkin claims and specific allegations made by non-partisan intelligence agencies?? Okay.

I mean, it's one thing to say that you don't find the evidence offered that persuasive and another to pretend that there's none.

Adder 01-10-2017 11:12 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504994)
This is part of what makes the Russian story look like spin.

What motivation do the CIA and NSA have to spin?

Quote:

They'd have said it was fixed by a biased media. They'd be correct about general media slant.
No, really, they wouldn't. Try basing your belief on facts instead of your imagination.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-10-2017 11:15 AM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504994)
1. I think there's a valid gripe about Comey. That was highly inappropriate. He should be investigated first, the Russians second. This is part of what makes the Russian story look like spin. Somebody's ducking the serious inquiry of a US agency and its head in favor of blaming things on an easy villain.

2. I'd have poked Trump fans who'd have whined about losing. They'd have said it was fixed by a biased media. They'd be correct about general media slant. But as I said earlier, in another post, I'd say all the interference and biases were a wash. The only thing that might've thrown off the balance was Comey. I have no doubt in the least this line would've exited my lips numerous times: "The FBI tried to gift you the election and your guy was such a shitshow he still lost! Get the fuck out of here with your bullshit whining."

I doubt anyone would argue voter fraud around me. That's for the cave dwelling Trumpkins. No sane person buys the notion that exists to an extent anywhere near adequate to sway an election today.

3. I'm not an outsider. I'm just a skeptic.

The bombshell question on Comey is what communication occurred between Comey and Republican leaders. But that question will never be asked because the Republican leaders now control everyone who might ask it.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-10-2017 12:45 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504992)
I don't see much difference between the complaints of the Trumpkins pre-election and the complaints of the Hillary fans post-election. "The election was corrupted!" That's the essential pitch. The Trumpkins would've been insufferable.

I'd have poked. Hell, how couldn't you? A vein that rich?

You wouldn't have called them pompous, because you buy the framing that Hillary was supported by the elite and Trump was supported by the rubes.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-10-2017 12:53 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504998)
By the way, with two well documented plagiarism charges against her, how is Monica Crowley still a nominee?

If someone else attacks his nominees, it's an attack on him and he won't give in. If his nominees disappoint him, they're gone.

Was Trump ever apparently bothered by any of Chris Christie's scandals? No. But when Jared Kushner went for him, that was it.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-10-2017 02:00 PM

Aon
 
This is dated, but worth reading. Washio just gave up the ghost.

ferrets_bueller 01-10-2017 02:02 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
I began the Christmas Holidays thinking that the people on The New York Times Op-Ed page were overwrought. I owe them an apology. We are living on an Orwellian world where lies are truth, lies get "explained" away by the people who are retained to mop up after the President elect (Latest example: Trump didn't mock a disabled reporter; there are countless other examples.) We are going to see this every damn day for the entire duration of Trump's presidency. Not that we didn't see this before the election, but it only seems to have gotten worse

We are going to continue to see false equivalency on a scale previously unimaginable. We are going to see government by Tweet and petty vindictiveness by a man so thin skinned insecure that he will rise to any bait. Putin may die of convulsive laughter; he has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.

Worse than that are the pathetic Republicans who know he is dangerous but who have chosen to forget that he insulted them, and their families personally, in a way that would get your ass handed to you in most venues. These fawning fools make my skin crawl. The people who called him a liar and a fraud and a phony crawled to Trump Tower seeking jobs in the Trump Administration. All in order to secure an agenda that will dramatically make matters demonstrably worse for the people who voted against their economic interests because they felt ignored.

The clown who hated Obamacare but loved the Affordable Care Act is by no mean an isolated case. The religious right sold their collective souls to Trump in one of the greatest acts of self delusion in modern times. The people who think they will be employed in coal mines and factories were conned. The veterans who rally around him ignore the fact that he was a draft dodger.

This emperor has no clothes except the ill fitting crap with a Trump label made by children overseas. He will govern as he has lived: as a moral cypher.

He is indefensible on any level. He is proudly ignorant. If anything good happens it will be in spite of him, not because of him. Those people on the Times editorial page, those elitists, were right.

It will get worse before it gets better. And it won't get better until the Democrats go deeper into their bench for some new blood.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-10-2017 02:02 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 505003)
If someone else attacks his nominees, it's an attack on him and he won't give in. If his nominees disappoint him, they're gone.

Was Trump ever apparently bothered by any of Chris Christie's scandals? No. But when Jared Kushner went for him, that was it.

The publisher has now pulled her book. We'll see if Columbia pulls her degree. This is only possible with the support the Republicans, who are just two pussy-grabber-whipped to object.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-10-2017 02:04 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller (Post 505005)
I began the Christmas Holidays thinking that the people on The New York Times Op-Ed page were overwrought. I owe them an apology. We are living on an Orwellian world where lies are truth, lies get "explained" away by the people who are retained to mop up after the President elect (Latest example: Trump didn't mock a disabled reporter; there are countless other examples.) We are going to see this every damn day for the entire duration of Trump's presidency. Not that we didn't see this before the election, but it only seems to have gotten worse

We are going to continue to see false equivalency on a scale previously unimaginable. We are going to see government by Tweet and petty vindictiveness by a man so thin skinned insecure that he will rise to any bait. Putin may die of convulsive laughter; he has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.

Worse than that are the pathetic Republicans who know he is dangerous but who have chosen to forget that he insulted them, and their families personally, in a way that would get your ass handed to you in most venues. These fawning fools make my skin crawl. The people who called him a liar and a fraud and a phony crawled to Trump Tower seeking jobs in the Trump Administration. All in order to secure an agenda that will dramatically make matters demonstrably worse for the people who voted against their economic interests because they felt ignored.

The clown who hated Obamacare but loved the Affordable Care Act is by no mean an isolated case. The religious right sold their collective souls to Trump in one of the greatest acts of self delusion in modern times. The people who think they will be employed in coal mines and factories were conned. The veterans who rally around him ignore the fact that he was a draft dodger.

This emperor has no clothes except the ill fitting crap with a Trump label made by children overseas. He will govern as he has lived: as a moral cypher.

He is indefensible on any level. He is proudly ignorant. If anything good happens it will be in spite of him, not because of him. Those people on the Times editorial page, those elitists, were right.

It will get worse before it gets better. And it won't get better until the Democrats go deeper into their bench for some new blood.

Agree completely. The need for new blood, whether of the shiny new penny kind or of the much rarer truly new thinking kind, is key.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-10-2017 02:20 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 505002)
You wouldn't have called them pompous, because you buy the framing that Hillary was supported by the elite and Trump was supported by the rubes.

Yes, of course. Living in a cave on Mars, I was never aware of the oft-touted point that the average income of a Trump voter was in excess of $70k. And I've never offered the proposition here that I've run into as many if not more well-off to affluent Trumpkins as I have the dirt poor simpleton variety.

Please.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-10-2017 02:21 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 505006)
The publisher has now pulled her book. We'll see if Columbia pulls her degree. This is only possible with the support the Republicans, who are just two pussy-grabber-whipped to object.

Republicans on the Hill are scared of Trump.

Democrats need to figure out how to tell a story about that, instead of picking seriatim policy fights.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-10-2017 02:25 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 505008)
Yes, of course. Living in a cave on Mars, I was never aware of the oft-touted point that the average income of a Trump voter was in excess of $70k. And I've never offered the proposition here that I've run into as many if not more well-off to affluent Trumpkins as I have the dirt poor simpleton variety.

Please.

Dude, I have suggested that you are once again offering a sort of false equivalency ("I would have called Trump voters pompous too"), not that you are ignorant. If I really thought you were ignorant, there wouldn't be any point in engaging with you. The false equivalencies grate precisely because you are better informed than many.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-10-2017 02:26 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 504999)
You see no difference between vague and fictious Trumpkin claims and specific allegations made by non-partisan intelligence agencies?? Okay.

I mean, it's one thing to say that you don't find the evidence offered that persuasive and another to pretend that there's none.

In both instances, you have little more than allegations, as you acknowledge. And that's the point. The evidence is scant. And this report has been run out at breakneck speed.

I find it persuasive, nonetheless. I just don't think it's as relevant as, say, Comey. I also find it a little more than curious people are willing to forgive pretty clear bias on the part of a domestic law enforcement agency - which ought to scare the shit out them - and flip out over the cyber interference of a known adversary. Call me crazy, but with Trump in office, I'm far more concerned about a new JD Edgar Hoover emerging than I am about Putin influencing us.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-10-2017 02:28 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 505010)
Dude, I have suggested that you are once again offering a sort of false equivalency ("I would have called Trump voters pompous too"), not that you are ignorant. If I really thought you were ignorant, there wouldn't be any point in engaging with you. The false equivalencies grate precisely because you are better informed than many.

Dude, I just cited evidence that when you said I bought the framing, you were wrong. If I missed some irony, it's an awful dry vintage.

Adder 01-10-2017 02:30 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller (Post 505005)
The religious right sold their collective souls to Trump in one of the greatest acts of self delusion in modern times. The people who think they will be employed in coal mines and factories were conned. The veterans who rally around him ignore the fact that he was a draft dodger.

Again, they don't care what he does as long as he has the same enemies as them. He says he hates Mexicans, Muslims, PC liberals and gays and tells black people that they live in crime-ridden hell holes. That's all that matters.


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