Re: You (all) lie!
 

The answer is 2(infinity), right? Or is this question an unlabeled rhetorical?

Re: You (all) lie!
 

Still too early to tell. The window closes in about 10 more posts.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

Sure it does. Premiums will go up. We all know that's coming. You'll feel it in wage compression.

The bogeyman argument - that mid sized businesses will suffer - is flawed. It's the mid sized businesses' employees who will be fired to offset the cost increase who'll feel it. But I guess that's alright... We'll only be throwing them out of a job and into a safety net. Win/Win!

I hold out hope there's something I'm missing in this plan, but the more I hear - even from NPR, which had a non-partisan, very reasonable guest on today explaining why the plan is woefully inadequate in terms of costs savings and the recent CBO scoring suspicious - the more I see an expansion and little more.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

He meant to say, "Increasing the cost of health care to Americans with coverage." This the plan will undoubtedly do in myriad direct and indirect ways. If you even think that can be debated, you're too deluded to discuss this issue. Enjoy a Kool Aid and weep for Vanderbilt.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

Have you gleaned this from tree rings?

Re: You (all) lie!
 

Math is hard.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

try it from this angle:
which sucks more dick, your sister or your posts?

Re: You (all) lie!
 

you're getting close to gathering an Eva post.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

But how does that "ruin" it?

And health care costs for Americans with coverage are going up, anyway, without any "reform". And if you even think that can be debated, you're too deluded to discuss this issue.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

How odd that the CBO sees $1.3 trillion in savings, then. I guess they're just deluded, too. Or perhaps under the thumb of George Soros and the Trilateral Commission.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

When you create new forms of health insurance you drive existing programs to change. they will need to become cheaper. what's the simplest way to get things cheaper?

Re: You (all) lie!
 

It will go up more. Put a pin in this post and see me in seven years.

ETA: It doesn't "ruin" it. If I had to bet, it'll actually improve it. The market will frustrate anything the govt can throw at it. This will create a two tiered HC system where people like us will have to pay more to not wait in line and receive better care (kind of like now, but in a more pronounced fashion), for which the GOP will provide us with some new tax deduction or credit. Watch the premium care givers opt out. You know... you just know it's going to happen. The decrease in reimbursements alone is going to drive a shitload of docs out of the system. (If it happens. If it doesn't, well, that'll be a good sign of how committed the Dems were to cost cutting.)

Re: You (all) lie!
 

I see housing coming back this year!

I see Dow 15,000!

I could be wrong, though I highly doubt it. Your faith in the CBO numbers, however, is endearing. For someone as smart and critical as you are to take it on faith makes me think unicorns really might exist... If we just wish for them hard enough.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

More than today? Of course it will -- there's no question about it. But the relevant but-for comparison is not today vs. tomorrow, but rather tomorrow with HCR vs. tomorrow without HCR. Over twenty years, you get $1.3 trillion in savings in the latter category. Unless you take the Tinker Bell approach and simply believe really hard.

Re: You (all) lie!
 

Saying the the government is going to save $1.3 trillion* is not ncessarily inconsitent with the private sector paying more, which is what Sebby predicted.


ETA: *Based on a very quick glance, that's what I understood the CBO to be saying.