LawTalkers - We are all Slave now.

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- - We are all Slave now. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=882)

Re: Judge Rapey McRapey

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 518112)

Absolutely everyone who's ever had a drink laughed out loud when he pulled that out of his ass.

TM

That was his Sherman McCoy moment. The guy lied. We all know he lied. And I think he lied at the end, when he said he knew he was not involved any of these assaults.

It was jarring to hear that. Because he equivocated all over the place, indicating culpability, but then, realizing he had to stick the landing, said he never did anything which was accused.

Yeah, I think you just saw a Supreme Court Justice lie to the Senate under oath on national TV.

It's hard to process.

Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 518115)

I find it amazing that you can lump "gun culture" into an argument against "rape culture" without understanding how similar the two concepts are. I'd be floored if you were anyone else.

TM

Oh yeah, that's right -- guns are a manifestation of "toxic masculinity." More fun with words!

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 518113)

where does the ** go back to?

I edited that part out. I was going to write about if I was up for Supreme Court Justice** how I would react to people who pointed out stupid, ugly shit I did.

TM

**Ha!

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 518113)

where does the ** go back to?

See, this is the quality content that reassures me I did the right thing taking Hank off ignore. (Because I wondered too)

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518116)

Why must I have to stand for something here? I have a serious problem with these silly words. I don't like them from the left or the right.

I'm also kind of tired of dealing with people who are standing for things. I stand for this, he stands for that, she stands for this other thing. It's exhausting. Ever since Obama took office, everybody in this country has been on a pedestal about one thing or another. And since Trump has been in office... fuck it. We're a full on idiocracy. Whackos on the right screaming about how we need to take the country back. Whackos on the left "resisting" everything.

I see both sides of almost everything. I'd say I stand for compromise, but that's an oxymoron. I prefer compromise. I think it is wise.

I think putting Kavanaugh on SCOTUS is terrible for the Republic. But I'm not going to empathize with anyone about it. So fuck me, right? I'm not true resistance. I criticize left wing lingo. So fuck me again. I'm being mean on this dark day.

You're right - I don't stand for much. But I am rational. I think removing emotion from these discussions, from these arguments, allows for people to compromise, which is where we all ought to be. Is it so bad to desire clarity in language? I don't like silly words from the left any more than I like silly comments from the right. (I have about ten emails from screwballs saying Soros was behind Ford.) Enough. You're all fucking nuts. And there's no satisfying you, or engaging you. Disagreement becomes heresy... And this place is a microcosm of the whole country. A giant irrational flip out, an endless grievance carnival from the left and right, led by a lunatic and a Senate of clueless geriatrics.

I never thought I'd know someone who could spend so much energy and passion asserting his ability and right to stand for nothing, while touting his lack of interest in empathy. Just Sebby bein' Sebby. Flyin' by the seat of his pants. Slave to none, master of all. Not the least bit completely and totally full of shit at all times.

Standing for something is not a political concept, by the way. One can take a stand in politics, but that doesn't mean standing for something necessarily involves being for the right or left.

TM

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 518109)

I won't answer this for Sebby because it's impossible to pin him down on anything or have a halfway decent conversation with because he stands for nothing.

But for most people, the reason they see a difference is that in your prison example someone else is doing something unjust. It's very easy to separate oneself from that example because you are not actively* participating in injustice. When it comes to racism and privilege, everyone knows (sometimes it's deep, deep down) that white people have set up a system that benefits themselves and do not want to disturb the advantages that now exist absolutely everywhere. That knowledge and reality creates an automatic and emotional reaction when it is brought up.

It works the same when it comes to rape culture. If you're a man, you know you've been part of the problem. In order to avoid admitting this out loud or even to oneself in a meaningful way--and accepting the definition is an admission--you attack the words. You attack the people who use the term. You attack liberal arts academics. Everything, everyone, just not yourself.

I was definitely one of those shitty little assholes RT is referring to. I pinched butts, snapped bras. I thought I was flirting and that it was harmless. I watched other boys do it and get away with it. Hell, lots of time that behavior was not just excused, but rewarded. That's rape culture. And admitting that I was most definitely a part of it is difficult and uncomfortable. My small, liberal arts school taught me that that shit is never appropriate. No one should be subject to that kind of treatment. No one should feel like they can act that way with impunity.

I have grown as a person. I have come to terms with the many flaws I used to have and am working on the ones I still have. Those of us who can't, throw bullshit at people who are trying to define and call attention to the things we have accepted as a society that are harmful.

TM

*And yes, there are a myriad of arguments of how people actually involve themselves in perpetuating a racist criminal justice system, but that doesn't change the fact that people can easily remove themselves from fault and point at other people.

Yeah, except here's the thing... Tiny little point: You did not rape anybody.

I've beaten the shit out of a couple people and a couple people have beaten the shit out of me. We used to do that as kids, as I'm sure you did, too. Is that fighting culture? Perhaps. Could we call that murder culture? Not unless we wanted to sound frivolous.

Pinching butts and grabbing bras is sexual assault. It's not rape. That a professor somewhere decided to coin it so to suit his or her aims doesn't change the meaning of the words, and it never will.

If people wish to use this overheated lingo, they will always face a person playing the part I am playing here. They will face an army of us, as a matter of fact. We'll hear the words, recognize the inaccuracy and obvious attempt to conflate the merely bad with the deviant and criminal and become skeptical of what the person is saying. They won't lose our support, because what they stand for is right and noble. But they will lose some respect.

Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518118)

Oh yeah, that's right -- guns are a manifestation of "toxic masculinity." More fun with words!

I don't have the energy to explain it to you. Pointless exercise anyway.

TM

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 518119)

I edited that part out. I was going to write about if I was up for Supreme Court Justice** how I would react to people who pointed out stupid, ugly shit I did.

TM

**Ha!

I've definitely spent a lot of time thinking about my past behavior lately and that's one of the things that so damaging to Kavanaugh's credibility to me. I can't fathom his reactions unless he knows he did these things.

Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518118)

Oh yeah, that's right -- guns are a manifestation of "toxic masculinity." More fun with words!

This is also a term that has an actual meaning that is useful.

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518122)

I've beaten the shit out of a couple people and a couple people have beaten the shit out of me. We used to do that as kids, as I'm sure you did, too. Is that fighting culture? Perhaps. Could we call that murder culture? Not unless we wanted to sound frivolous.

It's certainly part of toxic masculinity.

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 518121)

It's tough. I've always had a problem reaching a position on anything because it ultimately leads back to a recognition it's a giant absurd mess... a train to nowhere.

I can confidently say there's absolutely no point to life. But I like writing and thinking. I've tried to kill my brain, but it just keeps going. It's like a Volvo 240. Here's more of this, and more of than... Are you dead yet? Complacent and accepting of the repetition? Becoming interested in lawn care and golf? No? Damn you!

Sadly, Camus stole my thunder long ago.

Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 518125)

This is also a term that has an actual meaning that is useful.

What's toxic femininity's definition?

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 518126)

It's certainly part of toxic masculinity.

Right, but is it murder?

When this one guy who karate kicked my in the face rang my bell so bad I couldn't talk for half an hour, did he murder me?* I'd like to know, because that would impact whether I pay this next round of quarterlies.

____
*Everyone should experience this. Reminds one of his boundaries.

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518116)

I see both sides of almost everything.

Ha ha ha ha!!!!!! You're awesome.

Re: Catholic boys start much too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518122)

You absolutely cannot be this dense and literal.

Contributing to a culture in which sexual assault is laughed off, excused, or (as in RT's example) leads to punishing the fucking victim is part and parcel of what we're talking about when accusers are grilled about their sexual past, what they were wearing, how flirty they were. It's the culture that allows a Brock Turner to act contrite in front of a judge and get a minimum sentence for sexually assaulting an unconscious woman in public. It's about "boys will be boys" and "It's just horseplay," and "He does that because he likes you." It's the culture in which we laugh about prison rape or accept it as part of someone's sentence. It's about conditioning girls to be constantly aware of what they're wearing, how they're acting, where they are, how much they drink, what they say, how they act. It's about conditioning boys to not worry about any of that shit, even when it involves harmful, awful behavior. It's about shifting focus away from the accused and putting it on the accuser. All of that shit contributes to an atmosphere--a culture in which rape is more of a danger than it should be. It's about developing a culture in which a senator can scream at the top of his lungs about how a guy who has been accused of multiple assaults is having his life ruined by those he allegedly victimized right before he puts him on the highest court in the land. Rape culture. And it's a broad term for a reason. If you can't understand the term beyond the most literal reading imaginable, you're being intentionally ridiculous, because you're not that stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 518122)

If people wish to use this overheated lingo, they will always face a person playing the part I am playing here. They will face an army of us, as a matter of fact. We'll hear the words, recognize the inaccuracy and obvious attempt to conflate the merely bad with the deviant and criminal and become skeptical of what the person is saying. They won't lose our support, because what they stand for is right and noble. But they will lose some respect.

Nah. You're the one who's losing respect.

TM