For Love or Money
 

I have an excuse. The law sucks and the loans that financed the shitty career suck more. Therefore, I fail to see the sunny side of anything while I'm at work.

TM

Age Poll
 

To answer my own poll:

Older: 23 years. I was 26, he was 49.

Younger: 4 years. I was 28, he was 24.

Now: 1 year. He is in his early 30s and I am a year younger.

Edited to fix my faulty memory.

For Love or Money
 

Oh. Then we really are soul mates. As for loans, I really wish folks would stop posting their ridiculously low interest rates, which make my fairly low rates look usurious.

Yeah, consolidation was a great fucking idea! I mean, how much lower could the rates go?

For Love or Money
 

A 34 yo old woman is an adult who knows hersels and her body and is past that whole newly on her own. eating disorder, who am I , preorgasmic or whatever inexperience may apply and is not at an equal level (emotionally or what not) as the guy unless the guy is REALLY childish. Which of course is why I am ok with Michael Jackson bedding twelve year olds since he seems to be stunted there. Though he probalby has more hair on his balls. Yeah, I guess that isnt ok bc of the physicl thing.

but gwink, I dont know the players in your situation, so who knows. I am sure you were ubermature and sophisiticated and the guy was different. But wouldnt you be a little troubled if your 32 you male friend was banging a 20 yo girl? just a little? now that you are older?

For Love or Money
 

So, in your world, at what age does someone become a consenting adult?

I agree that there is a squick line for everyone re older-younger relationships. I just don't see how 10 years is a big deal. Hell, even if it's a 30 year difference, I don't really care and don't particularly think it's a de facto mommy or daddy issue for the younger or perv issue for the older. If they are both into it, why should it bother you?

TM

Age Poll
 

Oldest guy was 15 years older. That squicked me out and didn't last beyond a date (does it count then?). Youngest guy was 12 years younger. It was definitely a physical fling. The sex was awesome. Currently, it's a 9 year difference with me being older. Initially I was bothered by it and didn't agree to date him for 8 months. I finally gave in and we've been together ever since (over a year).

Age Poll
 

I am 28 and currently dating someone who is 38 (does it count that he looks early 30s? No gray armpit hair, etc., in better shape than I am). Speaking personally, I agree with Paigow. There is something very comforting and fatherly about him. I learn from him, his life experiences, etc. and I found it to be arousing as hell. Younger guys (and those my age) just do not compare. BTW, I am not estranged from my father, but I am the product of a divorce (lived with Mom and Stepdad, saw Dad and Stepmom every other weekend). It could very well be that the attraction to older guys is made stronger by the fact that I didn't live with my biological father. I don't think we would give Paigow the willies walking down the street, but I do think her theory has merit.

Zak

For Love or Money
 

Its more of a sniff test than a bright line to borrow from law school. Like, one of the guys I was out with the night I got dosed at the SKy bar- he was into his 18 yo phase bc they had better bodies (I asked) and he was like 29 or so. That squicked. A 36 yo guy and a 27 yo girl would not really squick me, but it would raise questions if she seemed exclusivley into guys at least a decade older. I am thinking os someone in particular and she is alienated from her dad.

it isnt always a pervo or looking for daddy thing by any means, but sometimes it is. you cant say it never is. an ex of mine dated a woman almost a decade older (she was in forties) and I always didnt understand how he could find her physically appealing when he could go much younger without hitting jailbait territory. I always wondered if it had something to do with the fact that his mom died when he was six. Of course, it might have been that she owned a house and offered stability to an unstable guy, but how different is that really? Or it might have just been plain old attraction. I think she ultimately decided he was too young for her.

For Love or Money
 

I've got news for you. There are gender issues in ALL hetero relationships. Some couples handle it. Others don't. And whether or not there gender or power issues is pointless because consenting adults are consenting adults. Hell, some women actually WANT that power dynamic (as do some men -- I know a guy who can't date someone who doesn't control his every decision and he often dates older women. and yez, he's pathetic).

AS for the older women type relationship age difference, it doesn't happen as often, true. But I've seen some old ass women with some young guys that were clearly gigglin' it up.

You had me fooled (and to preempt, yeah that ain't hard to do).

I wish. Unfortunately, any jailbait chickadee or sugar mommy would have to be blind to give me some play.

TM

For Love or Money
 

This reminds me of something my closest guy friend said. When he was maybe 28? he dated a woman late thirities early forties. WHenI asked why he was into it (bc apprently I am completely nosy and always ask peopel why, but this is why my world view and observations are just so socially scientifically valid) he said he wanted to see her lingerie collection and wanted to do the mink coat with nothing on underneath. Apparently the younger gals cant offer this. It seemed she had an outstanding toy collection. And he referred to her as his deevorsay. Safe to say it was a sex thing.

Royal Ascot - Fashionable or NOT
 

I like hats. Under the right circumstances they can be a fun fashion accessory. But........

http://a1636.g.akamai.net/7/1636/797...yal_ascot2.jpg

Royal Ascot - Fashionable or NOT
 

He should wipe that stupid grin off his face. He hasn't done anything that anyone with £250 and a total lack of pride couldn't accomplish in twenty minutes.

Bonnaroo -- New Festival for Deadheads
 

From the Times, a review of the Bonnaroo music festival that sold 80,000 tickets this year with no media coverage or advertising.

CRITIC'S NOTEBOOK
A Festival to Make Deadheads Grateful
By BEN RATLIFF

MANCHESTER, Tenn., June 15 — Music fans at rock festivals are, by and large, abused by sound, security, visibility, parking, aggressive advertising and ugly surroundings. But the organizers of the Bonnaroo festival — built on jam-band rock and expanding that genre beyond recognition — are aiming much higher.

The intelligence of the operation, on a 600-acre cow farm here, an hour south of Nashville, begins with the wide scope of the music. At 5 p.m. on Friday Lucinda Williams was playing country ballads in slow tempos with her jewel of a four-piece band, in front of a crowd baking in the sun around small mud puddles.

Farther to the north the saxophonist Joshua Redman was stalking a different stage, combining a language of stop-and-go rhythm-and-blues riffs and fluid bebop with his new trio. In a small, dark tent with overhead projections, Kid Koala, the turntablist, manipulated watery recorded phrases over a kaleidoscopic funk mishmash. Farther east, Tortoise, the instrumental quintet from Chicago whose members keep swapping instruments during sets, finished up in another tent, building up layers of slack jazz funk.

This is mostly a festival of backpackers: the world of peaceful collegiate rebellion. Much of it descends from Grateful Dead audience culture; the Dead in fact headlined the final night of Bonnaroo this year and last year. You could theorize that the band provides the logic of the programming: break down the Grateful Dead into its components, follow those aesthetic side roads, and you get Bonnaroo.

Full text: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/17/ar...ONN.html?8hpib

Preorgasmic????
 

How in the hell is any woman "preorgasmic" past the age of 19?
Between men and vibrators and just plain old TCB, how in the hell can any woman manage NOT to find out how to reach orgasm?

I don't think I've ever dated a girl who hadn't previously had an orgasm or didn't know how to reach orgasm. This alleged preorgasmic individual to whom you allude obviously has niether fingers nor curiosity.

S(if you haven't managed to get off by 20, I suggest you consult a medical text and locate your clitoris)D

Royal Ascot - Fashionable or NOT
 

Wasn't she in Adaptation?

How Does Your City Rate?
 

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/02prelimannual.pdf

(Spree: crime stats, by city, from the FBI)

Age Poll
 

True Springer-esque story:

Mr. Kiss's friend ("C") sent to Germany with Army in late 1990s. Understanding with girlfriend ("V") that no one dates other people--they are committed to each other. V goes hunting with her dad and dad's equally old friend. V fucks dad's friend while drunk. V becomes pregnant with twins. Dad's friend skips town. C FORGIVES V, MARRIES HER, AND RAISES THE TWINS.

I need new friends.

For Love or Money
 

I casually saw a couple 23 year olds and a 33 year old when I was a 23 year old in law school. I cannot impress upon you just how much better in the sack the 33 year old was. There was simply no comparison. Yes, its a sex thing. Its hard to find a 23-26 year old chick with the confidence of a 30+ divorcee. Women who aren't shy about how they like it are a huge turn on.

By the way, everything is a "sex thing". What else runs the planet? Money? Fuck no. Money is just something that allows ugly guys to get laid.

S(100% Freudian)D

Age Poll
 

When I was 14 I dated a guy who was 25 -- and somehow managed to retain my virginity. ;) He had to be fucking other people and was scared to death of my father so staying chaste wasn't too hard. For me, the relationship brought mobility (he had a car, of course) and booze. For him, I think it was sort of a "catch the only decent looking not totally psycho chick in the alternative scene." Oh well, I dumped him after about a year (hey, I was a kid) and he tried to kill me.

Now, my hubby is just shy of 2 years younger than I am. My first husband was 3 years older.

edited to add that current husband is youngest (in relation to my age) that I have ever been with.

How Does Your City Rate?
 

Lovely. Little DC with 500,000 people had 264 (up 33 from 2001)murders. Philadelphia, with about 2,000,000 people, had 288.

Preorgasmic????
 

Further proof that you must suck in bed bc you clearly dont have a clue about women.

Age Poll
 

Biggest older - 10 years
biggest younger - 7 years (he didn't get the "Flock of Seagulls" reference in Pulp Fiction - he asked me "what's 'Flock of Seagulls'?" It was weird)
now - my husband is 2 months younger. He knows who Flock of Seagulls was so everything is ok.

For Love or Money
 

This is bc the 23 yos were probably preorgasmic and didnt know how to tell you what they liked bc they didnt know yet or were too ashamed of their bodies to want to learn or just had been with a bunch of clods who coudlnt get them off. Like 23 yo men are so adept in the sack. If they came, I assure you they probably faked at least sometimes.

23 yo men= Long on juice, short on skill.

Royal Ascot - Fashionable or NOT
 

Since we only have the chin to go by, I was going to guess Frances McDormand. But the caption from the website of origin says "Tracy Rose."

Age Poll
 

So does V's dad. I'm willing to volunteer if he has other daughters.

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

Biggest difference is/was almost 6 years older than I and so far so good.

My parents are almost 10 yrs apart, married 37 years so far, btw - they married shortly after she turned 18. Different time, different culture.
______________________

On an unrelated note, I have a friend who at 30 has had sex only once (yes - once, you read that right) - and that was last year on a catch and release mission. She keeps complaining to me about her lack of relationships etc. and wants me to hook her up with some of my friends (or worse - Mr. Lex's friends). I keep telling her they are not her type (too gay, too skinny, too cheap - any excuse!) but the truth is she's um, not um, real attractive and makes her self even less attractive than she is.

For example, I have commented that she looks better with contacts, but she still wears glasses which make her eyes look teeny and she wears um, old fat-lady secretary/teacher* clothes. I tried taking her shopping, but she gravitates to clothes that make her look older (and fatter) than she is. Any (relatively tactful!) advice or is she doomed to be an old maid?

-TL

*Not to offend - my mom is a teacher and doesn't wear stuff this bad and my secretaries are also much more stylishly dressed than this, but I know you know what kind of clothes I am talking about anyway.

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

I've gotten some great tips about what clothes are appropriate for my body-type from the BBC version of What Not to Wear. The TLC knock-off is horrible. Make an appointment with a Personal Shopper at one of the department stores. I discovered that this was a free service last year. Well, it's free at Macy's. A friend of mine went and got lots of great advice/tips.

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

Send her to consider the Miss Spinster pageant

"The contest is to show that single females who are old can live happily even if they don't get married," said Jetset Productions spokesman Withan Kamutchat on the pageant's opening day.

(from ABC News)

Also note: Last month Thailand held its popular Jumbo Queen contest, an annual pageant for large-sized women designed to highlight the plight of Thailand's diminishing numbers of wild elephants.

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

Take her shopping with you when you are shopping for new clothes, so that you can get her opinion. While there, have her try some things on. She'll immediately see how different she looks.

Preorgasmic????
 

We are assuming they are dating men their own age, yes?


You are so funny, the way you pretend to know nothing about women!

Sebby, dear, fire up those synapses and think about your two posts in tandem. Maybe the second post could help you answer the question posed in the first?

For Love or Money
 

I have "dated" women with up to a 12 year difference younger (31 to 19 when we met and 36 to 25 when I see her now) and 8 years older (30 to 38), and most of the generalizations expressed here are just that - something with an element of truth, but exceptions abound.

I couldn't date most college age girls for any length of time now because the cultural differences interfere - different music (though not as bad as most my age), different ideas of whether a big ugly tat across the entire small of her back is attractive, different drugs (give me coke and mushrooms, not meth and extacy) - and because of the level of maturity and life experiences. That said, I have met some over the years and continue to do so. A 21-year old I know through a political group has dated a friend of mine, and I would date her in a second - incredibly mature, intelligent, and self-confident.

Moreover, it is a no-brainer that the eye-candy is better on hot younger women. This is offset, however, by my continuing experience that the next generation is flabbier and wears unflattering fashions. I still don't know whether they are just fatter with more bad body art, or whether the thrity-something women are trying harder to look good. It is also true that older women are more comfortable with their sexuality, their bodies, knowing what they want and asking for it, and less hung-up about what their friends think and whether their number is going too high. On the other hand, I am finding that that is changing too. The next generation seems to have healthier attitudes towards sex that ours, because they grew up with porn as mainstream instead of AIDS and Nancy Reagan.

The upshot is I don't think dating up or down in age neccessarily means there are psychological issues, but I do think that women who get as pissy about it as purse junkie have their own issues. Face it - the younger ones are probably more attractive than you and definitely more fun to hang out with (at least based upon your uptight reaction here).

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

Tell her to sign up for Extreme Makeovers?

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

I note you didn't suggest hooking her up with some of your friends here. Probably a good move, though certain of the FB guys would probably be willing to take on the assignment...

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

Assuming that she is happy with her appearance and does not want to change (hey, one person's shit is another person's GQ), tell her to keep trying and re-evaluate her expectations. There are more "lonely" people out there who maintain that status only because, regardless of their own social status or physical appearance, they believe that they are entitled to the hottest guy/girl out there. This seems to apply to men because they are almost totally incapable of seeing their own flaws (like some balding fuck with a beer gut and hair on his ass should be commenting about the appearance of anyone) and women because at a young age they develop this vision of what "Prince Charming" should look like. I am not saying that she should seek relationships through the prison pen-pal system, but she should start looking behind the outward appearances and try to find a great loving guy who doesn't look like ___________ (insert cinema heartthrob here).

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

Are you volunteering? ;)

-TL

For Love or Money
 

What I love about this post is that it purports to be the views of a wisened older experienced man (notwithstanding the fact that this is a man that is proud of the fact that he cannot commit to an intimate relationship) and then the signature says "boogers".

Exactly.

Preorgasmic????
 

RP,

Help a doddering fool with a broken sarcasm meter like myself out a bit... Are you saying the 33 year old was better than the 23 year olds because she'd had orgasms while the 23 year olds hadn't? If that's what you're saying, (a) I don't buy it and (b) the reason the 33 year old was better was because she had so much fucking confidence. Hell, she dominated. I played as aggressively as I knew she wanted, but in the end, she was leading and I was following.

Every chick at any age can have an orgams with a man if she's willing to tell him what to do. Sex is only really fun if you give up the fear of being embarrassed. Once a chick's been divirced or hit 30 single, she's passed being embarrassed, so she'll have more orgasms regularly. HOWEVER, there's no reason a chick at 23 shouldn't have just as many orgasms. Why is 30 the barrier age for sexual confidence for chicks? That's something I'll never get. As far as I'm concerned, getting an orgasm far outweighs any embarrassment that may be occasioned in the process.

S(I'd wear a clown suit to bed if I knew it guranteed phenomenal sex)D

Age Poll and Homely Friend Problem
 

This is good stuff. Her standards are probably too high, both career-wise and looks wise for a guy. I should add that due to a series of crappy job situations (not her fault), she is stuck temping as some sort of a clerk right now so money is also an issue to some degree. Wow - she really sounds like a catch now, huh? Good advice though, TF. Not at all crabby ;)

-TL

Preorgasmic????
 

There is a ton of truth in that statment for women AND men.

For Love or Money
 

Paigow, forgive me for being a timmy, but there is no such word as "wisened." Given your relationship with Less on the Board, I assume that you did not mean wise. Rather, did you mean wizened, as in "dried, shrunken, and wrinkled as a result of aging or of failing vitality" ?