Calling all wingnuts
 

Mary Magdalene was a follower of Jesus. She was, if memory serves, from a town called Magdala, so that's where the "last name" comes from. She gets two names to avoid the possible confusion with the other Mary.

She was also (not sure if this is in the text or from tradition) a prostitute. Like the apostle Matthew (a tax collector), she belonged to a group that was not held in high esteem by Jerusalem society. Apropos of nothing, singer-songwriter Richard Shindell has a song about her called (duh) "Mary Magdalene" which contains the priceless line about her relationship with Jesus: "it was his career before mine."

Depends on the version of Protestantism -- you go from High Episcopalians, who -- according to the witticism -- have all the pagentry of the Catholics with none of the guilt, to the Puritans who settled New England -- even Christmas was too much in terms of bells and whistles for them.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

I can't answer your question about why people believe in God because it's too big to be answered simply, but just speaking from personal beliefs, I believe in reincarnation which a lot of people scoff at me for and I don't think it affects my ability to think critically as a lawyer. I know it doesn't make sense and I still believe in it.

Your post made me think about Mark Bellnick (sp?), about whom the Wall Street Journal recently wrote an article which (I read it when I was sleepy, so I may have missed the point) drew parallels between a religious conversion and his becoming more crooked. Not really what you were talking about, but I guess there may be some times when spiritual stuff affects your ability to do your job.

Has anyone seen America's Next Top Model?
 

I noticed at first it was a bit awkward to paddle, but I just developed a slightly different style and it was fine. Same with some of the other moves.

I can see it being a problem for beginners though, until you get used to it.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

The only way to convince people that they need to be fixed by a god before they've even done anything bad (which results in the biggest target audience available) is to tell them that they are "born bad". Thus, a baby who dies minutes after birth, without being baptised, is a sinner and will go to hell.

It's one of the more positive and life-affirming of the religious dogmas. "You are just naturally sh*t." As a side note, Best Buy has built this mantra into its entire "Extended Warranty for an extra cost" philosophy.

Has anyone seen America's Next Top Model?
 

Tell them to use to use Body Glide or band-aids on their nipples. It works for marathoners. I chaffed my nipples ONCE in a half-marathon. Never again. People refer to you as number 11 b/c of the blood dripping down and staining your shirt, looking like the number 11. Sorry if that squicked anyone...

The Stain of Original Sin
 

But what is original sin? Its not sex, its not cum, but you cant have sex without it? or was that a one trick wonder? wtf is it?

as for coltraines post about chaffing nipples and blood- two different things, buddy. Never heard of nips bleeding especially to the extent where it creates an 11. Where is lactation lover?

Has anyone seen America's Next Top Model?
 

Me. If I ever needed an excuse to never, ever jog, that is absolutely it.

Jesus (tying threads together neatly). Now I'm afraid to even move my arms to reach across my desk for a pen. :eek:

Has anyone seen America's Next Top Model?
 

Probably a very good suggestion, but with limited utility in my past circumstances, where many of the uber-breasted women were with me on dates while kayaking.

Telling a woman, on a first date, to smear lubricant on her breasts, or to "put these two big bandaids on your nipples", significantly lessens the probablility of a second date, at least when you are saying those things in the first hour of the date.

Later on, maybe . . .

The Stain of Original Sin
 

I think I read that article -- it describes how he went from being a fairly non-religious Jew to being in Opus Dei and Catholic. Then I read The Da Vinci Code over the weekend and now I'm really wondering about this whole Opus Dei thing.

The book had some interesting parts and somewhat clever puzzle-things going on, but it was kind of choppy and the plot wasn't very well done. Like, why would the police search the plane but not search the car in the hanger with the plane?

The Stain of Original Sin
 

I thought it was the idea that everyone conceived through sex and delivered via the usual works is a dirty disgusting sinner, which means everyone is. But Mary was somehow born without it. Or was that Jesus?

Fuck, I'm not sure. Whaddaya expect from an atheist doomed to eternal hell?

The Stain of Original Sin
 

The original sin was Adam and Eve's disobedience to God in the Garden of Eden, when they ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge and were expelled. This is the original sin of mankind, and it stains all of their progeny. Christ died to obtain forgiveness for mankind for this original sin, and so original sin can only be expunged by baptism in the Christian church (even catholics recognize the validity of baptism in all christian sects). Before the birth of christ, all otherwise virtuous people went to hell (or limbo, though that was abolished by the Pope in the '80s) to await his birth (he spent the 3 days between being crucified and appearing to his appostles - the first of which was Mary M, by the by) harrowing hell and releasing all the "virtuous pagans" from the confines of hell. Since his birth, anyone who wasn't baptized goes to hell no matter how virtuous they were. (No official word on unbaptized babies since limbo was abolished.)

:)

The Stain of Original Sin
 

Adam and Eve committed a sin and as we are descended from them, we are stained by their commission of that sin. Some would say it was Eve who committed the sin and thus women especially are stained, since she pushed Adam to take a bite of the apple.

Regardless, the sin was the act that caused God to throw Adam and Eve out of Eden. And we are stained by their sin.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

"Original sin" is, briefly, the concept that Adam and Eve used their free will to disobey God, and thereby allowed evil into the world. Because original sin is kind of a genetic thing, we are all (except for Mary due to the Immaculate Conception, and Jesus due to the whole God thing) born with it.

So, it isn't really about sex (other than the fact that it hits us the moment we are conceived, which usually has something to do with sex).

The Stain of Original Sin
 

So Adam chomps the apple and Eve gets the blame because she told him to? Sounds like Adam (1) was spineless and (2) in Dr. Phil psychobabble parlance, should take ownership of his actions and stop letting Eve take the heat for them.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

I thought that another theory on this was that some of those "siblings" were Joseph's children from a prior marriage - hence, again, half siblings since Joseph accepted responsibility as Jesus's father by marrying Mary after she was knocked up? Joe was traditionally quite old when he and Mary married, and I thought that the supposed prior wife was some close relation of Mary's. (Which was usual at the time - you kept intermarrying among and within families to prevent wealth dissipation, a practice which only in fact got stamped out sometime around the 12th/13th century when the Church got involved in consecrating marriages and instituted the "no cosanguinity" rules by way of trying to break the power of the secular nobility in Europe.) So, anyhow, I thought, it was though quite possible that the "confusion" about the term for brother/cousin arose because people were very often both half-siblings AND cousins.

I also believe that Joseph and Mary were supposed to be first cousins, to loop back into a prior topic.

PSA
 

I can't speak for Paig (and wouldn't dare to anyway) but if I said mammals I would have meant everything. For over 20 years now I have gone sans mammals, fish and birds (and eggs and milk). I admit that the core of the aversion is a love of animals (as I tuck my leather shoes behind the chair) but there was also that whole thing about reading The Jungle by Upton Sinclair and being very disturbed about the process (yes, I know that things have changed a bit now). My doc says that it has been so long that my body would reject meat if I tried to eat it now. Reject? I guess that means barf. For some reason, I am very very very sensitive to the smell of meat -- I can't stand to handle it directly when I cook it for my carnivore hubby. I definitely would never touch fish, the feel and smell of poultry gives me the willies and if I touch a steak or something I swear that the smell stays on my fingers for days. I am not, however, one of those people who will say something to a meat-eater at dinner or anything -- to each his own.

For my food issues, among other things, my hubby says that I am a fucking nutball (but a harmless one) -- I think he means it in the most loving way possible. :D

The Stain of Original Sin
 

It's a great excuse for keeping women down, i.e. their evil nature is what caused the original sin to happen.

Has anyone seen America's Next Top Model?
 

Do we have a board motto yet???

The Stain of Original Sin
 

Dirty slut.... :rolleyes:

The Stain of Original Sin
 

Thank you. Questions:
1)how did Mary's mom get an exception for the original sin deal?
2)was the "tree of knowledge" an actual tree or was this a metaphor? What was the fruit? Pomegranate? I thought they fucked and that was the problem, but also a necessity since they were the only two people around and had to do it. Which would make us all brothers and sisters- there , problem between catholics and protestants solved!
3) if Mary Magdalene was a prostitute (which I assume was a bad thing), how did she get such a high ranking gig?
4) I thought Jesus was put to death against his will, for his beliefs. Did he intend to expunge the sin or whatnot? DId he have a clue?

Has anyone seen America's Next Top Model?
 

FWIW, I've only seen it happen to guys, but I've seen it A LOT. It's not pretty.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

I thought it was because they saw their own nakedness, were ashamed, and put leaves on their "privates" -- did I dream that up? Maybe I am confusing religion with the need for nipple bandages when kayaking.

PSA
 

I emailed DTB withan explanation. Isaid mammals to distinguiosh our whiskered friends from the feathered and gilled sets.

And I am still not entirely convinced that you arent some tribute sock with paigesque qualities taken to the nth degree. Not that I would dirnk Bud light unless I was wandering a dead show parking lot and it was really hot and someone handed me one. also, your boobs are way too big

Calling all wingnuts
 

You should. I suggest starting with Leviticus.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

I guess you have never gone to a marathon. I see it all the time when I go to watch the Boston race. Very squicky.

PSA
 

I would never attend a Dead show. Does that clear up the tribute sock question?

The Stain of Original Sin
 

1) because having anything to do with sex (like being born or giving birth) makes women whores, so they had to clear Mary so she was pure enough to bear Jesus.

2) I thought it was an actual tree and a pomegranate. Whatever it was, it's apparently Eve's fault.

3) Mary Magdalene was a hooker but repented and changed her ways and became a disciple, so she was all set. Some feminist theologians have argued she was actually an Apostle but the woman-hating pigs in the Church covered it up to justify keeping women out of the clergy.

4) way beyond me. Apparently he was just one of a bunch of other guys the Romans crucified that day though, so they didn't think anyone'd make such a big deal out of it.

PSA
 

Good thing my extreme hatred of birds allows me to avoid this problem when it comes to poultry. Okay, mainly I hate other types of birds than chickens and turkeys, but I have no qualms about letting them die for the sins of the feathered brethren and sistren.

I do feel bad about the cows (and their big eyes) though... Not bad enough to give up my once-per-month or so beef fix.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

Not quite sure, ask a Catholic on this one. I remember the story was that she and hubby were really, really old and had no kids and prayed and God cut them a break & the kid was therefore specially dedicated to god somehow it was related to that. But I am pulling that out of my hat.
Real? What do YOU think? Seriously, it depends on how literally you take Genesis, like creation theory and everything else people fight about with this shit. But my understanding is that, in fact, it is traditionally supposed to have been a Pomegranate, yes.

Fucking was only a problem or a sin after the fall. Before, sex was totally fine because it was without sin (i.e.: lust). Actually, sex was one of the greatest things one could do to worship God because it was the most direct participation humans could have in God's great gift of the creation of life. What the fun of sex w/o lust is is a bit beyond me, but nevermind.
That was rather the point. She was a ho, but she loved Jesus, and that was enough. Incidentally, she was also a lazy ho, spending one dinner party adoring Jesus and washing his feet with her hair while her sisters did all the work. When one of them called her on it (hey, you lazy ho, quit sitting at that dude's feet and help with some of this fucking clean up why don't you) jesus said she had the right of it.
Jesus was put to death largely for political reasons, but he did indeed have a clue, and could have saved himself at any time and didn't because he needed to die for our sins. This is why the whole "father why has thou forsaken me" thng is such a big deal - it indicated regret that he was suffering and dying, and much ink has been spilled over the centuries explaining that one (usually: he was 100% God and 100% human all at once, and this was just evidence of his humanity & ability to suffer, making his sacrifice and god-i-ness all the more miraculous).

The Stain of Original Sin
 

1. Mary's mom? Fuck, I never even heard of her mom. I think that's what most people refer to as a "hole in the plot".

2. Depends where you live. In Missouri, its a real tree. I Greenwich, its metsphorical. The fruit was kiwi. I don't think adam fucked Eve - one of the two of them ripped out the other's rib, or maybe God did that. But nobody got laid.

3. Mary said she was sorry, and she washed Jesus' feet. I know women who'll paint your house for a good foot massage. Jesus may have been in touch with his feminine side.

4. Jesus knew he was going to be killed, but didn't run (which may mean he committed suicide, which opens quite a pandora's box since suicide is a mortal sin which would ostensibly damn you or I to hell... unless of course we said we were sorry just before we died, in which case all would be forgiven). Jesus died to expunge our sins, even though being a member of the holy trinity along with God and an amorphous "holy spirit", he technically had the power to just wipe out original sin without going through all those machinations. Again, another "hole in the plot".

Nu Bra
 

Though I may be the only one here able to wear this since I am not a DDDD or whatever y'all well-endowed ladies are, there is a new strapless bra -- the "Nu Bra" -- described in the paper:

Totally Strapless

To underscore skimpy, strapless tops when a normal bra won't do, Fashion Forms offers NuBra, a dazzlingly simple contraption made of two soft silicone cups that are lined with a high-tech adhesive and fasten in the front. The NuBra ($60), which goes on and off with surprising ease, clearly responds to a need: Saks Fifth Avenue, sold 500 in two months and is expecting a second shipment today. The bras come in A, B or C sizes, in black, nude or clear, and they are designed to stay sticky for more than 100 wearings — just enough to carry tube-tops and strapless dresses through Labor Day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/15/fa...WIWN.html?8nyh

I had the earlier version that felt like styrofoam and was hard to stick, so I usually opt for braless when wear a dress cut low on the sides or back. It would be cool if this works well.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

Paigow,

I believe the only cum stains you'll find in this arena of discussion are on altar boys' collars.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

They saw their own nakedness and were ashamed because they had eaten from the tree of knowledge and therefore recognized their nakedness for what it was - nakedness. Without knowledge there was no shame. Covering up with the fig leaves tipped God off to the fact that they had eaten from the tree, and thus was the trigger for His royal piss-off.

Interestingly, I seem to recall that God kicked them out saying "now that they've eaten of the tree of knowledge, what if they eat of the tree of life, because then they'll be like gods themselves."

BR(I'm totally pulling this crap out of my memory, and may be wrong on any or all points, and anyone with better biblical/theological recall is sincerely invited to correct my sorry ass)C

Nu Bra
 

I've tried an earlier version of that concept also without great results. This looks kind of cool and I am WELL within that size range (I should have no issues with the kayaking). I may check it out...

PSA and the Holy Ghost
 

Since I think I once saw the Holy Ghost at a Dead show, this is a perfect segueway for this query...

What exactly is the Holy Ghost?

You've got God and Jesus and we both know who they are. Who's this Holy Ghost cat? Is he like Curly/Shemp and Curly Joe (he'll always keep being replaced so there's no need to flesh him out too much)? Is he like God's lazy borther? Do his power's eclipse God's but he chooses to be behind the scenes like the Emporer and Darth Vader in Star Wars? Is the Holy Ghost the one who's taking notes while you're jerking off or stealing from your father's wallet? Seems to me this Holy Ghost is a lot like the NSA - he's running shit but nobody knows his politics. And if he's a ghost, who was he before he died?

And what's the "mystery" of the holy trinity? How a ghost, God and Jesus can be one in the same and three separate entities at the same time? Isn't that schizophrenia? Also, why is it a mystery at all? So three guys are all one guy at the same time - good for them. I hope they dig that gig. I'm not staying up late wondering how they do it... seems a lot of work for little gain. Who wants three sets of problems to deal with - one's enough.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

The "Mary Magdalene was a whore" line is a bit of folk theology that has lasted for centuries, but it has very little biblical support. It hinges on whether all the various people named Mary in the Gospels (with the obvious exception of the mother of Jesus) are the same person as the unnamed "sinner" in Luke 7:36-50.

I'm not saying its totally impossible, but I think it's a bit of a stretch, and it's amazing how it's one of the things that really sticks with people. Depending on whom you ask, it's either a very affirming story about forgiveness of every sin, or it's all about the oppression of women. Since nobody believes in sin anymore, the folk tradition has outlasted its usefulness and is now outweighed by its misogyny.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

I say, why wait til menopause to start the prayer for kids? infertility is a bitch and menopause only complicates it.
.

Sounds like she would have done well on For Love or Money. Whyd didnt Rob invoke Jesus when he apologized? Apparently that kind of thing is a-ok.



OK, so Jesus was going to die for political reasons and since he knew he had to die for all the future babies being born anyway, he figued that was as good of a time as any? Personally, I would havfe waited for a heart attack or something less painful. Sounds kind of masochistic. Maybe he just wanted to make it as dramatic as possible.

The Stain of Original Sin
 

So far so good. The only thing I would differ with you on is the old and barren couple who wanted the baby... I think you were talking about Zecharia and Elizabeth and the birth of John the Baptist rather than Mary. The other mentionable details to that story being that since Zecharia didn't believe Gabriel who appeared in the temple to tell Zechariah Elizabeth was pregnant, Zechariah was mute until after the baby was born and he confirmed by writing on a tablet that the baby was to be named John, as Gabriel directed.

Nu Bra
 

someone get back to me on this one please. I just got the Juicy tube dress and that thing keeps working its way down the tatas. This could help. Where do those of us who live in No Saks in the City get it?

Calling all wingnuts
 

Hey, you'd figure by now that people would have enough sense to PM me their religious questions to avoid watching me offend the delicate sensibilities of others, but now we've even got Paigow expressing an interest in theology. I'm a uniter, not a divider!

The Lord moves in mysterious ways. Can I get an aymen-uh!