Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Wait a minute. I missed this the first time. No, you're not the only one still in their 30s (barely).

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

There are reasons for this, right? It didn't just happen by accident, did it?

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

The socioeconomic reasons for Trump's success:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...mp_129902.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/op...ollection&_r=1

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I was speaking more towards Dole/McCain/Romney in the establishment disappointment camp. GWB won, but was still a disappointment in many ways to much of the GOP from a policy perspective.

I think the problem for the Establishment now is that there are too many sub-groups under the GOP umbrella severely pissed off. They can no longer count on the rank and file to pull the lever for their guy. I would not have considered supporting a single Establishment candidate who ran this time, with the sole exception to that being, sure, I would rather Bush than Trump. I find it interesting how on our side, Rubio is absolutely considered an Establishment guy now and that was supposed to be his appeal. That he could appeal to the mainstream moderates and the more conservative voters. The immigration bill cost him every bit of the goodwill he had with the Tea Party people who previously had held him in such high esteem. Of those who ran and actually had a chance, Rubio would be my second choice, but would have been lower on the list if I ranked in order of ideological acceptability.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

The Trump voter wants the impossible - to roll back globalization, economically and culturally.

The Establishment is being foolish on Trump. They should support and then co-opt him to their uses. He's inviting them to do so right now by saying he'll make deals, and they're ignoring him. It's quite baffling. Sure, Trump has baggage that would kill a traditional candidate. But he's a protest candidate, a mere vessel, and the people who will vote for him will do so no matter what muck comes out in the press.

The Establishment should engage in a Kabuki dance with Trump which allows him to hold his bona fides with the insurgent voters, cut a deal with him to govern as a moderate behind closed doors, and then find a way to funnel him piles of money without too overtly supporting him in public during the election, and shift his argument from "fuck the GOP Establishment" to "fuck the whole Establishment." That'll peel off independent voters and some Reagan Democrats.

Trump is the only guy out there who can beat Hillary. The GOP Establishment simply has to be a bit creative and stop viewing him as uncontrollable. Trump is not an American Caligula -- not by a long shot. He's a bloated ego who'll be way out of his depth and wind up staffing his administration with Establishment lackeys and Wall Street clowns. "Meet the new boss..."

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Unfortunately, I think your original lament was probably the truer-one: there's not really a large popular constituency for small-government conservatism.

Of course, that's partly because the era of big government ended in the 1990s and y'all have essentially won, despite somehow believing you haven't.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

The American Dream of the 20th Century was an economic aberration. The war put us in a unique position. We aren't there anymore.

The Democratic Party is a party of handouts. But they appear to be accidentally anticipating broader economic shifts much better than the GOP. I'm not going to get into some silly debate with Adder about whether the old saw, "as jobs disappear due to tech and outsourcing, new ones appear" still holds true (it does not, IMO). But I think we can all agree, for the next few decades, we're looking at wage stagnation, poor job quality, and unusually high under/unemployment for about half of society. We can argue whether it's moral hazard or bad policy to allow a dependent underclass to persist and grow, but practically speaking, they are going to do so regardless of what we do. In this regard, the Democrats appear far more realistic than Republicans (many of the loudest of whom are crony capitalists, which are part of the problem) trotting out of the old "anyone can make it in America" Horatio Alger shtick.

The Republicans would do well to embrace Nixon's and Milton Friedman's plan of a guaranteed minimum salary. They could sell that on the basis that it cuts out the administrative middlemen and all their govt salaries and pensions, which puts more of the money spent on dependents more directly and more quickly back into circulation in the economy.

Say what you will of dependents, but they spend 100% of what they get, which isn't exactly a bad thing in a consumption based economy.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

You keep ignoring this, so I'll keep reminding you. "Insurgent voters" is largely comprised of racist, homophobic, xenophobes. Oh yeah, and all those people you imagine who are getting worked up into a frothing lather over protectionist ideals.

Joe Scarborough is an asshat
 

But he's right. GOP voters have figure out it never trickles down.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

What are these conservative principles you think Bush or McCain or Romney didn't represent? As I look at all three I see

(i) opposition to taxes;
(ii) neo-con, expansionist foreign policy;
(iii) hostility to civil rights, from voting rights extension to marriage for all; and
(iv) opposition to ACA (though I'm suspecting Romney at some point will start taking credit instead of casting shade, but it hasn't happened yet).

Maybe you can argue that all three would likely support compromise on immigration, but on the above four issues, they are all pretty hard-care.

At an ideological level, I can't find meaningful distinctions among any of these people. It seems the real differences are over how obstructionist different candidates are and how colorful their language is, not whether they fundamentally hate gays and want to kill muslims - on those things they're unified.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Read the articles I linked to in a previous post.

I understand it's hard to ignore the Pavlovian urge to state "All Trump voters are just racists and homophobes." It feels good, and it makes the necessary moral judgment a lot easier. The problem is, it's not true. Some are racists, no doubt, and his rallies are seriously creepy. But you keep saying "all" of the "insurgent voters," and that's plainly avoiding an argument of degree. An important one. Why is it important? Because from Occupy to Bernie to Trump, there's a common thread -- a complaint about lack of living wage jobs, and wealth inequality. There is a huge discussion to be had on the issue of economic globalization and its impacts on workers that the Establishment of both parties, and their biggest donors, work assiduously to avoid.

Look... Globalization is unavoidable. Millions of Americans are fucked going forward. Utterly, totally fucked. We have and will have a bifurcated society. Right now, the Bernie voter, the Trump voter -- these people are grasping just how screwed they're going to be. And the rest of us are responding by avoiding that discussion, and the reason is simple. We don't want to admit it to them. If Joe Sixpack understands his dire straits, he's liable to vote for a guy like Bernie or Trump. And this would harm those of us who do fine in a global system. And it would sure as hell harm those who make enormous sums by cost cutting with labor arbitrage.

When people say dumb things like "All Trump voters are racists and homophobes," the honest conversation with Joe Sixpack never occurs. We never reach it.

And I think the media focus on the racist element of Trumpism is not an accident. First, it's ugly, so it attracts clicks and eyeballs on the TV. But second, and more importantly, it helps to avoid discussion of the economic causes of Trumpism (and Bernie), which Rupert Murdoch sure as fuck doesn't want to give any airtime.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

The points you and Sebby* are making re Trump are not necessarily inconsistent. In fact, I think that both points are needed to understand his appeal, and they both feed the other.

*Raouuuuuuuuul! (Related: I miss Fringey.)

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

The problem for the Establishment GOP is that, for the past many years -- starting, at least, with Newt Gingrich's government shutdown -- they have sold the party on the notion that a decent compromise is nowhere near as good as taking a pure ideological stand.

When you need to look for policies that are achievable and effective, you build coalitions. When you value taking an ideological position and refusing to compromise, you splinter into groups based on which position and issue is most important to particular people.

The problem is not unique to the GOP (see, Sanders). In fact, for many years it plagued Dems, and more broadly the left -- it was easy to be a radical about X, and to disagree with all the other radicals who had their own X, when no one gave a shit about actually accomplishing effective policy and governance and change. But it has become the Republicans' core message. That people who tried to destroy the US economy by refusing to approve a debt-ceiling increase did not see their political careers end is among the gravest symptoms.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

We could adopt policies the would make them less fucked - providing greater support for housing and health care and/or a basic income - so that "fucked" doesn't look all that bad.

In part because there aren't easy answers. Trump's protectionism helps no one (and he won't do it). It turns out that fast growth is a lot harder when you're starting from a higher base. And the things that would help (e.g., a lot more immigration) are really unpopular with key demographics.

We need what some of what Bernie is selling. We just have to figure out how we can get there politically.

ETA: It would also help if we could get Americans to realize that raising the people of the world's most populous country out of abject poverty into middle income status via trade is a massive net positive for humanity. But that ain't happening.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Is there any way to read the quotes in this article as anything but despicable?

Anyone willing to defend him?