LawTalkers - Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It's easy to undermine any political theory if one compares it in pure form to the practical versions of everything else.

Of course, in theory communism works too.

If you think this is in its pure form you should look at the Libertarian partys platform. If you support all the projects and policies I listed before you are not a libertarian.

Spanky

05-06-2005 03:08 PM

Reason no. 263.......

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm sure that Ellen Tauscher supports free trade in principle. If she's voting against it, something else is going on.

Yes - Union Pressure and other special interests.

Tyrone Slothrop

05-06-2005 03:10 PM

Reason no. 263.......

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Yes - Union Pressure and other special interests.

Or maybe the specific content of that bill? You're pointing to influences that would always lead her to oppose free trade. She doesn't. So you're not explaining why this was different. Maybe it was a bad bill.

Spanky

05-06-2005 03:11 PM

Reason no. 263.......

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm sure that Ellen Tauscher supports free trade in principle. (See, e.g., this.) If she's voting against it, something else is going on.

She only got a 61% from the CATO institute on free trade. Not a good score.

Tyrone Slothrop

05-06-2005 03:15 PM

Reason no. 263.......

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
She only got a 61% from the CATO institute on free trade. Not a good score.

About what you'd expect for a centrist of either stripe.

Groups like CATO often use the label "free trade" to mask an opposition to reasonable forms of government regulation concerning labor law, workplace safety, and environmental protection. Free trade agreements can be used to override these protections. Opposing such agreements doesn't mean that you oppose free trade, at least as I and most people use the term, but if you're looking for a reason to paint the Ellen Tauschers of the world as anti-business -- and isn't this just another example of what Tom DeLay has tried to do with the K Street Project? -- then you might use the term differently.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

05-06-2005 03:39 PM

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
If you think this is in its pure form you should look at the Libertarian partys platform. If you support all the projects and policies I listed before you are not a libertarian.

the capitalization of the L makes a critical difference.

That aside, are you now a small-tent Republican? Because the party's going to shrink by at least a good part of california if the party platform defines the ideology.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

05-06-2005 03:41 PM

Now Maybe If We Cut Spending . . .

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The thing that bugs me about many libertarians -- OK, "a" thing -- is that they think that common law property rights are a fact of nature, and don't need government to define or enforce them.

That's not accurate. Libertarians recognize that government is needed to enforce individual rights. Individual rights, however, are only negative rights.

Sidd Finch

05-06-2005 03:47 PM

Reason no. 263.......

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Centrist Democrats oppose Central American trade pact

I fail to understand why Tauscher et al took this position. I think it's really a mistake, both politically and for the country.

My views on free trade with China (i.e., it's an oxymoron) do not extend globally.

Tyrone Slothrop

05-06-2005 03:48 PM

Now Maybe If We Cut Spending . . .

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
That's not accurate. Libertarians recognize that government is needed to enforce individual rights. Individual rights, however, are only negative rights.

What is a "negative right"?

Sidd Finch

05-06-2005 03:50 PM

Now Maybe If We Cut Spending . . .

Quote:

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Well, one can't deny that there are certain common characteristics.

Libertarians are anarchists with money.

Sidd Finch

05-06-2005 03:53 PM

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Libertariansim is about as practical as frogs pulling the Budweiser wagon. You only make an exception for K-12? What about the safety net? All the "liberty" in the world won't do you much good if you are starving to death. If a man's family is starving can you really expect him not to steal your food? What about the clean air act, and the clean water act? Insterstate Highway System? Do you think every street in amercia should be a toll road? What do we do with Handicapp people - just let them starve? Do you really want people to be able to buy hand grenades and M-16s? Libertariansim is a nice theory for children who have absolutely no idea how the world works. But past the age of seven one should realize how ridiculous, cruel and unworkable the theory is.

2.

BRC's argument -- that no one has ever really tried libertarianism -- is the same argument I used to hear about socialism, communism, and Marxism. Really, they are great systems. No one has ever put a pure one into effect, so we can't blame the problems of societies that claim to be socialist on socialism.

Sidd Finch

05-06-2005 03:54 PM

Putting aside Judicial nominations and steroids

Quote:

Damn. STP. You people have been busy today.

Sidd Finch

05-06-2005 03:55 PM

Reason no. 263.......

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
She only got a 61% from the CATO institute on free trade. Not a good score.

What Ty said is right. That score is not indicative of someone beholden to "unions and special interests."

taxwonk