Re: On a "need to know" basis
 

Well put (and 3).

CDF

Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro
 

I like the Socratic advice.

Presumably she wasn't there and all she knows is based on her husband's description.* Admitting that ignorance and helping the daughter find the truth on her own may be the best advice.

*Which is likely closer to the truth, but there is no reason to take a position on that. Let the daughter see where the stories intersect and diverge.

Re: On a "need to know" basis
 

Yes, it would not be preferable, but how else could it be fair? If you're with someone else, your spouse has a right to be with someone else. You get "open" or you get "closed," but you don't get both. I'd have to look at it rationally. And if the quid pro quo were hot, well, fuck... Why not be a glass-half-full kind of guy?

Re: On a "need to know" basis
 

I think it's going to be hard for you to know what you want. Him buzzing around you is exerting a tidal force and getting in the way of clear judgment about what you want, because it will eventually turn into a false dichotomy -- him or being a single mom. And trust me, that dichotomy is very false.

Stop hate-fucking him. You want him to feel the hate, but the male genitalia contain zero receptive nerve endings for feeling hate and millions for feeling fucking, so you're not accomplishing any objective valuable to you. Please fuck Adder -- he needs it more than this guy.

Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro
 

Minefield? I know a woman who caught her dad sucking off her boyfriend in high school. That's a minefield. You've just got to respond in a lawyerly fashion to all inquiries about mom.

Re: On a "need to know" basis
 

hi!

Except can you imagine the cosmic mess that would result?

Re: On a "need to know" basis
 

Well put. If I knew shit about big red italic twos there would be one here. But not too italicy, just that perfect lean.

We all need to think more about Adder and how we can help.

Re: On a "need to know" basis
 

Dadder. It has a ring to it.

And he'd be good at it.

Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro
 

Your book is overdue.

Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro
 

So far, I have just said things that are true without spilling everything (which I don't plan to do). I have said stuff like, "I think maybe your mother isn't ready to tell you the real reason, but someday she probably will" and things of that nature. I don't feel right covering for her mother, but I realize that doesn't mean I need to make full disclosure -- though my SD asks a lot of questions, which will only get more pointed as time goes on.

She will find out eventually, and I don't want her to think I was in on the lie. The dynamic had always been to pretend nothing was wrong with a woman walking out on her kids and her life, and that there was nothing unusual about that. But of course my SD knows and feels that it isn't normal and I think she's relieved to have someone to talk about it with. Her parents just change the subject. My view is when she's ready to hear the answer, she will ask a direct question.

Re: On a "need to know" basis
 

[true story] People get really worked up over this issue. I remember some years back I was out at a bar in the Chi, with an old college friend of my first wife and some friends of the friend (a newly married midwestern couple in their early 30s). The first wife wasn't there. At that point, to, quote the Luniz, we had been together "too long". Anyhoo, the 4 of us got into a conceptual discussion of monogamy and cheating yada yada yada. So, much like some of my socks on the PB I staked out the outlier position and said sex is sex, its no big deal and I really don't care if the first wife is nailing someone else as long as its not Hank. The newlyweds, at least the wife, was super offended (and oozing insecurities) by this. We argued about for about 3 hours. By this time everyone was fairly buzzed, i.e. drunk as hell, and it was 2 in the AM, which made it seem like a good time to go to some late night place (the Catacombs in Lincoln Park I think it was called).

When we got there we kept arguing and I said I think I will pick up someone up and you can report it back to the wife if you want. Did I mention I was wearing a kilt? So I propositioned some drunken college girl who was arguing with her friends over whether I was truly "Scottish Style", which out of a sense of honour I did righteously prove and which such forthrighteousness endeared me to the coed and got me an invite back to her bachelorette pad. This whole exchange inflamed the newlywed wife who jumped into the fray and cockblocked me. All in all I didn't care as I wasn't going to go back to her place anyway, but it gave me more ability to stoke her fires on the monogamy/cheating issue. So we end up at the bar, she's drunk and livid about my behaviour and tries to order a drink and the bartender cuts her off. She turns around and starts to walk away from the bar, then whips around runs at the bar, hurdles it and takes out the bartender with a drunken haymaker.

End result, she ends up in jail and I end up not getting laid. All in the name of monogamy and anti-cheating. [/true story]

ymmv

Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro
 

Actually, it just came out in paperback.

Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro
 

Actually, the reason I know is because the boyfriend told me. (Admission against interest!)

Re: On a "need to know" basis
 

Well, since you fucked up and let an unreliable cheating douchebag convince you have a kid you didn't want maybe now you need to stop focusing on what YOU want and focus on what's best for your daughter. And do you think that growing up watching her mother hate-fuck a douchebag who habitually cheats and stalks her mom is going to help make her a happy and rational adult capable of making better decisions than you did?

I'm sorry this sounds mean, but jesus christ. I don't have kids but I feel perfectly justified in judging you right now because I MADE A CHOICE not to have kids until I had a partner who also wanted children because I, too, would prefer not to be a single mother. Own up to your mistakes and start putting your daughter first because she's the only victim here.

Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro
 

I think, "I don't know" is a good answer to most questions about the reasons for someone else's behavior. It's usually not a lie, though one can of course speculate.