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-   -   Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875)

Pretty Little Flower 03-16-2016 05:12 PM

Re: Run the money-changers out of the temple; put the Carpenter in.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 499622)
Yup. It would amuse me if they had that but not separate ones for each of them.

The very notion of a Billy Bragg and Wilco Pandora channel (could anything be whiter . . . an Abba and Kenny Chesney harpsichord cover band?) makes me realize that I cannot move forward with my new signature line without taking some affirmative steps. Accordingly, having been inspired by Thurgreed's tireless work on the fashionable lawyers chatting board in the semi-nudity oeuvre, I will be dropping a daily dose of funk here. It might be more appropriate for the fashionable lawyers chatting board, but God knows this board needs it more. Daily Dose #1 - Skull Snaps -- It's a New Day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDEof4hOOo

Hank Chinaski 03-16-2016 08:16 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 499609)
I think, better than anything else, these two sentences succinctly summarize the flaws in your political ramblings. A person on a kamikaze mission is trying to stop the discussion, not start it.

This posts evidences such an ignorance of Japanese history and culture that it compels me to question your claim to having spent 7 years in Osaka studying to be an Itamae?

Tyrone Slothrop 03-17-2016 12:44 AM

Re: Run the money-changers out of the temple; put the Carpenter in.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 499624)
The very notion of a Billy Bragg and Wilco Pandora channel (could anything be whiter . . . an Abba and Kenny Chesney harpsichord cover band?) makes me realize that I cannot move forward with my new signature line without taking some affirmative steps. Accordingly, having been inspired by Thurgreed's tireless work on the fashionable lawyers chatting board in the semi-nudity oeuvre, I will be dropping a daily dose of funk here. It might be more appropriate for the fashionable lawyers chatting board, but God knows this board needs it more. Daily Dose #1 - Skull Snaps -- It's a New Day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDEof4hOOo

Thanks for this -- I bought the album.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-17-2016 01:14 AM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 499499)
Obama's been a decent President, and a lot of the Left's attacks on him for not having done enough on health care, or jailing bankers, or "bringing urrr jobs back" are the usual gripes of those who don't understand how difficult, or impossible, it is to achieve the goals the Left desires.

But in criminal justice reform, there was bipartisan support. Booker and Paul got together to push it forward. The Kochs (for cynical reasons, no doubt) put money behind it. The rare moment where the public has some sympathy for people railroaded by a corrupt, deeply fucked up system appeared, and Obama missed the opportunity to push for reform.

Sure, even for Democrats, it's hard to buck the "tough on crime" idiot voting bloc. But Obama could have done more. And Hillary sure as fuck won't. (She'll suck up to the private prison lobby if it even slightly enhances her war chest for 2020.) The moment's gone, and the criticism Obama blew the best chance for serious reform is quite valid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 499593)
You're missing the point. This is not about getting legislation passed. I just want him to say those things to the public. Sure, it's a kamikaze mission. But it starts the discussion. Booker and Paul have tried to push for crim justice reform and gotten some airtime on the issue. The President could greatly assist in putting the matter more in the realm of urgent public debate.

I'm sorry, when you talked about "achieving goals" and "bipartisan support" and "reform" and "bucking the idiot voting bloc" and "serious reform", I thought you were talking about passing bipartisan legislation to reform the criminal justice laws, not a kamikaze mission to start the discussion.

Quote:

I suspect your cynical view is Obama should not offer such a speech because its lack of success during his term would reflect badly on him. It might in the short term, but over the long term, I think it would be seen as brave and ahead of the curve.
Ahead of a curve that he and lots of Democrats and moderate Republicans are already on? Wow, good point.

I don't think Obama is being cynical at all. As with gay marriage, I think he understands that sometimes he serves a cause better by not adding his voice to the debate. If you cared about getting something done instead of a kamikaze mission to start a discussion, you would respect that.

ThurgreedMarshall 03-17-2016 07:38 AM

Hey Sebby!
 
Just in case you still believe that, as President, Trump will surround himself with smart people (or appoint them):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...uld-look-like/

TM

sebastian_dangerfield 03-17-2016 01:26 PM

Re: Hey Sebby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499628)
Just in case you still believe that, as President, Trump will surround himself with smart people (or appoint them):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...uld-look-like/

TM

I assumed (the link was abbreviated on the board) this would be about Carson being promised a cabinet post, and how a man who thinks the pyramids were filled with grain is going to be the next surgeon general.

The actual link is somewhat disturbing, but nothing truly horrifying. Politics is filled with degenerates, and they're often the most effective operatives. (Carville, Atwater, etc.) I still think if Old Orangehead gets the prize, he's going to acquire a cabinet of serious, skilled people. He's going to need it, and I think a number of skilled people who care about the future of the country would volunteer, the thinking being, "My God. If he doesn't have the best in there advising him, this country's going to have some serious fucking problems."

(Of course, the possibility of Carl Icahn as Secretary of the Treasury isn't exactly encouraging... But then, Kasich may get it instead. And either would be better than Larry Summers, who truly, seriously needs to Go The Fuck Away [Bezos should be slapped crisply across the lips for giving that bloviating academic gasbag a weekly column*].)
__________
* Summers might be the most dangerous idiot to have held sway over policy in the last thirty years. He might even be more dangerous than Trump, who has actually run a business (even badly), has been moderate on regulation, and has not advocated idiotic policies like banning $100 bills.

Adder 03-17-2016 02:34 PM

Re: Hey Sebby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 499629)
And either would be better than Larry Summers, who truly, seriously needs to Go The Fuck Away [Bezos should be slapped crisply across the lips for giving that bloviating academic gasbag a weekly column*].)
__________
* Summers might be the most dangerous idiot to have held sway over policy in the last thirty years. He might even be more dangerous than Trump, who has actually run a business (even badly), has been moderate on regulation, and has not advocated idiotic policies like banning $100 bills.

Evergreen note to self: Do not listen to Sebby on economics.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-17-2016 02:47 PM

Re: Hey Sebby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 499630)
Evergreen note to self: Do not listen to Sebby on economics.

I said years ago that the economy was fucked, and not really improving. The rise of Trump hasn't proven me entirely right, because I didn't see the exact bifurcation of haves and have nots which created Trump. But I was hell of a lot closer on where things were going than you have ever been arguing, "Oh, everything is doing well. You just wait and see and the policy people will be proven correct."

If our recovery, based in large part on policies advocated by Summers, is such a broad success, why are there tens of millions of Americans, from all classes, voting for a demagogue? Why are millions of Americans stating they are angry, dissatisfied, and feeling "left behind" in poll after poll after poll? Is it all... racism?

Not Bob 03-17-2016 03:32 PM

I'm just a poor sole in the unemployment line/my God, I'm hardly alive.
 
Here's an interesting article from October 2015 in The Guardian by Chris Arnade (a good follow on Twitter, btw) that lays out the point I was trying to make re working class discontent last week.

The fact that the working class has been screwed is real. The fact that many of the working class blame immigrants is real. The fact that many in the working class are racist is real. (Hi to my now-dead father and uncles, proud union men who were pissed when the NLRB started pushing unions to desegregate in the 1970s.) What I think Trump has been able to do is to add these grievances together in a way that the sum is greater than the equal of the parts.

It's not a choice of taking one position from column A and one from B and saying "this is what Trump's appeal really is." Nope. You can't disassociate one part of his appeal from the other. What you can do (as Flower put it) say "I don't want a racist to be president," and act accordingly. (Or, I suppose, if you are a free trade racist, "I don't want a protectionist to be president.")

ETA "poor sole"? Jesus H. Christ, I fucking hate auto-correct sometimes.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-17-2016 03:42 PM

Re: Hey Sebby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 499631)
I said years ago that the economy was fucked, and not really improving. The rise of Trump hasn't proven me entirely right, because I didn't see the exact bifurcation of haves and have nots which created Trump. But I was hell of a lot closer on where things were going than you have ever been arguing, "Oh, everything is doing well. You just wait and see and the policy people will be proven correct."

If our recovery, based in large part on policies advocated by Summers, is such a broad success, why are there tens of millions of Americans, from all classes, voting for a demagogue? Why are millions of Americans stating they are angry, dissatisfied, and feeling "left behind" in poll after poll after poll? Is it all... racism?

The greater mystery to me was how Larry Summers convinced a Republican Congress to enact his vision over the last six years.

Adder 03-17-2016 04:16 PM

Re: Hey Sebby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 499631)
I said years ago that the economy was fucked, and not really improving.

Yeah, and you were wrong.

Quote:

The rise of Trump hasn't proven me entirely right, because I didn't see the exact bifurcation of haves and have nots which created Trump.
Except that's not what created Trump.

Quote:

Why are millions of Americans stating they are angry, dissatisfied, and feeling "left behind" in poll after poll after poll? Is it all... racism?
Yes.

Pretty Little Flower 03-17-2016 04:28 PM

Re: Hey Sebby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 499629)
I still think if Old Orangehead gets the prize, he's going to acquire a cabinet of serious, skilled people.

I still think you cray cray. Here is Daily Dose of Funk #2. For all you old school De La Soul fans out there. "Bra" by Cymande:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuLnxjVo6bk

Not Bob 03-17-2016 04:37 PM

Re: Hey Sebby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 499634)
Except that's not what created Trump

From the link:

Quote:

Ive been periodically making the case that Americans aren't really all that angry about the economy, which naturally implies that the economy isn't the reason for Donald Trump's success. This argument has taken several forms. First, in objective terms, the economy is in decent shape. Second, the number of people affected by globalization (lost jobs, reduced wages) isn't that large in absolute terms. Third, polls indicate that concern about the economy isn't especially high by historical standards. And fourth, polls also indicate that overall personal financial comfort is fairly strong.
Well, thank goodness Kevin Drum was able to get on Google to explain to us why Trump voters vote for Trump. I mean, why bother actually talking to them in person in places like Youngstown or Skokie or Gary? I mean, I can't blame him - those places are kinda hard to get to and you probably will have a hard time getting a decent craft beer.

Had he, say, interviewed 200 people over three months* like Arnade did, perhaps his opinion would be spoiled by anecdotal evidence. I mean, polling and economic data are much more accurate about why people vote the way they do than actually talking to a bunch of people.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...traits/405907/

Adder 03-17-2016 04:38 PM

Re: I'm just a poor sole in the unemployment line/my God, I'm hardly alive.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 499632)
The fact that the working class has been screwed is real. The fact that many of the working class blame immigrants is real. The fact that many in the working class are racist is real. ... What I think Trump has been able to do is to add these grievances together in a way that the sum is greater than the equal of the parts.

To be fair, I think this is right.

On trade, I'm interested in listening to this podcast about this paper reviewed in this blog post.

A take away seems to be that we have not done enough to counteract the distributional harms of trade with China. That shouldn't really be a surprise. Nor is it the fault of immigrants or the Chinese. But its easier to get outraged at those people and at trade than at the GOP that was completely opposed to functioning government.

Adder 03-17-2016 04:42 PM

Re: Hey Sebby!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 499636)
Well, thank goodness Kevin Drum was able to get on Google to explain to us why Trump voters vote for Trump. I mean, why bother actually talking to them in person in places like Youngstown or Skokie or Gary? I mean, I can't blame him - those places are kinda hard to get to and you probably will have a hard time getting a decent craft beer.

A. You ignored the data he cited both here and in prior posts.

B. He's got cancer.

Quote:

I mean, polling and economic data are much more accurate about why people vote the way they do than actually talking to a bunch of people.
Yes, they are.


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