Congress is privy to intelligence you and I don't see- maybe he's seen an analysis of what will likely happen to france over the next 15 years and he still wants to be able to take his kids to see le tour eifel.

Victor Davis Hanson:

• "Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich. ... recently said, 'I don't take sides for or against Hezbollah or for or against Israel.'"

All of you, apparently, now concede that Hanson smeared Dingell by misrepresenting his views in the context of Dingell's response to someone else smearing him the same way. You all have moved on to explaining what else Dingell ought to have said. So, go nuts with that. Nevertheless, none of you are willing to admit Hanson got it wrong. It's more important to trash a Democrat.

United we stand indeed.

Ty, none of us are conceding anything of the sort.

In fact, we are reiterating over and over (and over) that Dingell's remarks repeatedly - in edited context or in their complete transcription - reveal that he regards Hezbollah and Israel as equal parties.

As such, I don't see how Hanson got it wrong.

For starters, he didn't condemn Israel's use of violence.

Think about that for a little while.

And you didn't condemn Iran or North Korea. Why do you support Iran or North Korea?

eta: I would think that anyone sufficiently interested in politics here would recognize that Dingell is taking sides in a debate in the foreign-policy community about whether the United States should attempt to act as an "honest broker" for a Middle East peace agreement, or whethe it should side with our key ally in the region, Israel.

No one -- no one -- thinks that the people who support the "honest broker" option actually support Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria or Iran. The question is how best to support Israel and the United States' long-term objectives. By playing this role, we engineered a durable peace between Israel and Egypt at Camp David. So it's not like there's no precedent for this working. OTOH, the whole Oslo thing did not get Israel peace with the PLO.

Bush plainly has given up trying to play this role, and thinks peace is ultimately more likely if Israel beats up on, e.g., Hamas, Hezbollah and Lebanon for a while. I don't think this has worked out so well, but reasonable minds can differ, I suppose.

And then there are the Victor Davis Hansons of the world, who are advancing their side of this policy debate by smearing people like Dingell. I would wager that if you look at his whole record, Dingell has been quite supportive of Israel. None of you have bothered to do this. Instead, you are party to the smearing.

If you re-read Dingell's remarks in this context, it is pretty obvious what he is trying to say, and that he doesn't equate Hezbollah and Israel. Give it a try. It won't hurt your brain.

5k Policy
 

Hello my peeps,

As an Mod here, I thought I should bring it to your attention that the policy related to the poster who gets the 5K post in a thread getting to name the next thread, has been changed.


That said, as you can see, there will be discretion on the part of the Mod(s) in creating the name of the thread, as the same shall be suggested/advised upon by the plebe who gets the 5K post.

In order to clearly articulate my position and future intent as a Mod of this board, with the requisite discretion, as above, I wanted to take this opportunity to address all of all y'all and say:

I am the Mod of this Board who will support the property rights, if any, and freedom of choice of the K winner to choose the thread title (within the bounds of the ToS), as has always been the grand tradition and policy of this board (whom's predecessor I invented on Infirm).

Essential to my position is my overall support of Freedom and my personal love of a meritocracy, where each member earns their stripes, respectively, sts.

I know the freedom lovers out there will support my policy, and I will continue to reap the adoration and belovedness of my constituents here.

Ty, I put it to you, Freedom or oppressive dictatorial censorship?

Peace and may g-d bless the Board,

Penske

slave has my proxy...

I unqualifiedly support Israel's right to exist and its right to self-defence of the Jewish homeland.

Care to join me Ty?

5k Policy
 

My response to that question would be fact-specific. E.g., I support freedom from the posting of outable information.

Do you think I disagree with that? If you post something I've said on this or any other electronic forum that would reasonably cause a reader to think that I do not unqualifiedly support Israel's right to exist or its right to self-defense, I will both join you and buy you a box of the finest Washington State boxed wine.

5k Policy
 

You are ducking and weaving Ty. Just like a leftwing pol. I said my policy was subject to the ToS (as the policy I am adopting mirrors the policy that is in place now).

Freedom of Choice or paternalistically nannystatist bigbrotherhoodlumism? The people see through your fence sitting and flipfloppery.

Choose or lose Ty, choose. or. lose!

I think you have the morally centered compass to make the right decision here (and elsewhere), but I put the burden of proof on you. The keyboard is at your fingertips...

5k Policy
 

I don't know the ToS well enough to be sure, but I suspect all the things that would concern me are in there.

I put the burden on you. You haven't said anything to shift the burden back to me. You have a keyboard too.

Ty, I don't give a crap what Hanson said - now, in the past, about Dingell or otherwise. I care about what Dingell said, though. I think it's shocking that Dingell couldn't just fricken answer that he's "against" Hezbelloh and had to make the qualifications he did. He sounds like an ass. And knock it off with our "failure to condemn North Korea." We weren't talking about North Korea. If were were, I'd condemn it. Dingell was talking about Hezbollah. He didn't flat out say he was against them. He only condemns their "violence". WTF? And why would he offer up the "I don't take sides". Nobody fucking asked him if he would take sides. This is a slam dunk. Sleep on it. You'll agree in the morning.

A letter from Rep. Dingell to Rush Limbaugh:

• August 2, 2006
  
  Mr. Rush Limbaugh
  1270 Avenue of the Americas
  New York, NY 10020
  
  Dear Rush:
  
  Your comments about me and my position on the terrorist organization Hezbollah during your program on August 1 and 2 were dishonest and misleading.
  
  I am consistently on the record saying that I believe Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization dedicated to the elimination of Israel. The world community must come together to work to eradicate Hezbollah and their power. They unilaterally provoked this conflict, they use civilians as human shields, and they generally have no regard for the loss of either Israeli or Lebanese civilian lives. The sad and unfortunate events of the past few weeks have reinforced this belief.
  
  Here are the facts:
  
  In March 2005, I voted for a resolution calling on the European Union to list Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.
  
  In June 2006, I voted for a resolution urging the Organization of American States countries to designate Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.
  
  On July 28 of this year, I signed onto a letter again reiterating the request for the EU to regard Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.
  
  You also disregarded my continued support of the State of Israel including:
  
  * A July 19, 2006 statement in which I said on the House floor "Israel's right to defend itself is absolute."
  * A statement two days earlier on July 17 on the House floor in which I said: "The actions of Hezbollah have been wrong and counterproductive. They violated Israel's borders, they have continually targeted civilians, and they have endangered Lebanon's promising future."
  * And, the fact that during my 50 years in Congress, I have proudly supported more than $300 billion dollars in aid for the State of Israel.
  
  For your own political agenda, you ignored the facts and relied on an edited soundbite which does not stand up to the scrutiny of unbiased reporters.
  
  Let me make it clear: I will continue to call for a cease-fire and to advocate for peace in the Middle East. I want an end to the deadly attacks for many reasons, including my belief that this conflict has cost Israel dearly in the international community. I also believe Israel faces a long-term threat if the government of Lebanon is controlled by extremists. This could happen if the violence brings down Lebanon's democratically elected government - which has received strong support from the Bush Administration. I believe Israel has both the right to exist and the right to protect its borders. I am doing what I believe will help our friends in Israel today, tomorrow and for years to come.
  
  You and I disagree on many things, but we do share a love of this country and its people. I ask you to use your influence to stoke the fires for peace in the Middle East - a peace that will advance America's standing in all corners of the world - instead of furthering the bloodshed and pain for the sake of partisan politics.
  
  Sincerely yours,
  
  John D. Dingell
  Member of Congress
  15th Congressional District, Michigan