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-   -   Objectively intelligent. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884)

Tyrone Slothrop 01-07-2021 08:54 PM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone (Post 530908)
It's like rope drop at Disneyland.

I saw some other clips with some real violence between Capitol Police and the mob, so it wasn't all sweetness and light.

ThurgreedMarshall 01-07-2021 10:00 PM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 530859)
I think its a pack of deluded dead enders going out with one last barbaric yawp. (Somewhere, Whitman curses me for the equivalence.)

Trumpism might be best viewed as a moral panic. One of many moral panics we've had in recent years. People become obsessed with some issue, exhibit extreme fervor, tribalize over it, create fixation over it in the general public, then burn out under the heat of their own extremism. These things used to run over long periods of time and appear less frequently in the past, but with the advent of social media and its siloing effect on groups of fellow travelers, panics appear more often today.

Populism is arguably, by definition, a panic.

2008 exposed extreme inequalities emerging in our economy. The cure for it made those inequalities worse. We've had a K-shaped recovery since 2008. If you'd assets at that time, they've since appreciated nicely. If you didn't, or worse, if you didn't and you worked in a non-professional job, or a professional job that could be automated or offshored, the last dozen years have been mostly miserable.

Trump looked like a messiah to the credulous. He whipped them into a panic by expressing bluntly what they couldn't articulate: They were getting screwed by a system that didn't care about them.

So they freaked out and bought onto his nativist pitch. Then, as all panics will, They Went Nuts. Trumpism became, for the significant portion of his voters who were not merely voting their pocketbooks (the useful idiots), a religion.

Most panics fizzle out because they don't have a unifying hierarchy. Nobody's in charge (See: Occupy Wall Street). Trumpism was different, and it ended in the lurid fashion we all saw yesterday only because it had a CEO, or more aptly, a Pope. He was able to direct it, herd and focus its internal factions.

But ultimately, it was a panic, and as panics do, it will dissipate. It will have some impact going forward. Indeed, some of its impact may be positive, as it has caused us to refocus on the damage neoliberal economic policies do to certain segments of the population. But in a few months, when we all focus on the economic fallout that's coming once we get Covid-19 under control (the 20 years' worth of creative destruction to certain sectors of the economy [which was already unavoidable, but could be handled over a longer time frame] which Covid just accelerated into one year), Trumpism will be very much in the rear view mirror. And the pleasure of being able to read a news site or watch TV without seeing him will make the desire to forget him that much stronger, reinforcing his disappearance.

Yesterday was a unique political/psychological phenomenon. It's what you get when a panic is hijacked by a demagogue. Comparisons to Hitler or Mussolini seem easy but are ultimately facile. The Beer Hall Putsch failed. Yesterday's embarrassing approximation of it failed even more miserably. Real authoritarianism only succeeds when advocated and pushed by people working inside the system. Thinkers, plotters, people very much unlike Trump. Very much unlike the desperate sorts looking for new religions in the form of moral panics.

If you worry about authoritarians, which you should, you should worry about tech, and the corporations which are growing and consolidating power as smaller competition folds during this pandemic.

I still don't fear Donald Trump. He's too dumb to fear. I fear the people telling me they need to be given powers, to squash media, to preclude voices, to spy on us, to protect us from future Trumps. Those are the authoritarians who will create fascism under our noses, and they'll have armies of dupes cheering along with them - "It's all in our better interest!"

Just stopped by to see this guy still spouting the most ridiculous shit since, “Bill Barr will do the right thing.” 😂😂😂

Unbelievable. I had to stop reading because this shit is so stupid. But happy that sebby still has an audience for his nonsense.

See you in another 6 months.

TM

Pretty Little Flower 01-07-2021 10:13 PM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 530910)
Just stopped by to see this guy still spouting the most ridiculous shit since, “Bill Barr will do the right thing.” 😂😂😂

Unbelievable. I had to stop reading because this shit is so stupid. But happy that sebby still has an audience for his nonsense.

See you in another 6 months.

TM

Some things you missed:

-I’m tired of hysterical woke progressives claiming Trump is a threat to democracy

-If any government tries to reinstate COVID lockdowns there will be a civil war

-The idea that any of the Floyd rioting was instigated by white supremacists is paranoia of the greatest order

-Explicit racism is not tolerated in the moneyed Northeast and Mid-Atlantic corridor

Don’t be a stranger!

Actually, it just the same bullshit, different day. See ya in six months.

Hank Chinaski 01-07-2021 11:41 PM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 530911)
Some things you missed:

-I’m tired of hysterical woke progressives claiming Trump is a threat to democracy

-If any government tries to reinstate COVID lockdowns there will be a civil war

-The idea that any of the Floyd rioting was instigated by white supremacists is paranoia of the greatest order

-Explicit racism is not tolerated in the moneyed Northeast and Mid-Atlantic corridor

Don’t be a stranger!

Actually, it just the same bullshit, different day. See ya in six months.

I'm sorry but none of you super libs ever consider that maybe sebby is right.

Tyrone Slothrop 01-08-2021 12:55 AM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 530912)
I'm sorry but none of you super libs ever consider that maybe sebby is right.

Hey, just this morning I declined to take his bet about mob attacks on Capitols before 1/20. How about a little credit where credit is due, eh?

sebastian_dangerfield 01-08-2021 06:42 AM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 530911)
Some things you missed:

-I’m tired of hysterical woke progressives claiming Trump is a threat to democracy

He's not, and he never really was. The system held together, and his attempts to thwart it have been performative, and largely laughed at by sane, sober people.

Quote:

-If any government tries to reinstate COVID lockdowns there will be a civil war
They're being defied everywhere. This state had to issue an order reopening everything because it was losing face because it couldn't enforce them. In states where govts tried more aggressively, you've had confrontations bordering on violence, sometimes actual violence.

Quote:

-The idea that any of the Floyd rioting was instigated by white supremacists is paranoia of the greatest order
If you think that's the main source of that rioting, put on a tinfoil hat and debate with Qanon, your deluded brethren on the right.

Quote:

-Explicit racism is not tolerated in the moneyed Northeast and Mid-Atlantic corridor
It's not. Racism is tolerated to an extent in some corners, but not explicit racism.

Quote:

Actually, it just the same bullshit, different day.
On this we agree. If you were given a desperately needed enema, what was left could be folded into a carry-on bag.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 01-08-2021 09:17 AM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 530910)
Just stopped by to see this guy still spouting the most ridiculous shit since, “Bill Barr will do the right thing.” 😂😂😂

TM

You stopped by just to see what Sebby was up to? Wow. How do you think that makes the rest of us feel?

Pretty Little Flower 01-08-2021 09:25 AM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 530915)
You stopped by just to see what Sebby was up to? Wow. How do you think that makes the rest of us feel?

It’s like he doesn’t even care that you got fat.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-08-2021 09:55 AM

Re: May it please the court...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 530899)
Residential city street. Kids, dogs, and Amazon delivery folks everywhere. Can’t risk the collateral damage. I need to be able to take out Jumpy Jeb and Twitchy Tommy before they get too close because I have spindly biker arms and have no chance of surviving hand-to-hand combat. I may have to get a cupola built.

You could also consider collective action with your neighbors. Maybe establish a perimeter around the neighborhood with fences and razor wire, and a little clearing on either side to give a good field of fire?

We will all need defensive plans after the government falls.

Pretty Little Flower 01-08-2021 10:14 AM

Re: May it please the court...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 530917)
You could also consider collective action with your neighbors. Maybe establish a perimeter around the neighborhood with fences and razor wire, and a little clearing on either side to give a good field of fire?

We will all need defensive plans after the government falls.

Thanks, but I learned from Sebastian this morning that until a threat actually succeeds, it is not a threat. So, until such point as someone in my family is injured or killed, we are perfectly safe. I tried to explain this to my daughter, and even showed her Sebastian’s post, but she just said something about us not understanding how the English language works. Teenagers! :rolleyes:

Adder 01-08-2021 10:21 AM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 530888)
The Capitol Police definitely screwed things up yesterday. They looked overwhelmed, and clearly waited too long to ask for help. Once MPD showed up, they were able to clear the building and create a perimeter. They waited too long to ask MPD for help.

It's hard not to think that they were complicit. There's going to be some very interesting testimony in the future. For example, apparently Larry Hogan tried to send the MD national guard but was told by DOD that it wasn't authorized.

I'm speculating a bit, but I think we're going to hear from senior DOD and military officials that he asked them to do a coup (leading to the Secs Def letter) and ordered them not to use federal resources to defend the capital. Add to that how serious the national security breach may be from stolen/compromised computers. If that's right, I'm not sure how he stays out of jail, not matter how strong Biden's "let's move on" instincts are.

Adder 01-08-2021 10:31 AM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 530914)
He's not, and he never really was. The system held together, and his attempts to thwart it have been performative, and largely laughed at by sane, sober people.

You slept through Wednesday. There is no other explanation.


Quote:

If you think that's the main source of that rioting, put on a tinfoil hat and debate with Qanon, your deluded brethren on the right.
I'm going to wager you don't know who has been charged with burning down our Third Precinct. Or who, allegedly, was the guy with the hammer smashing the Auto Zone windows at the very start of it.


Quote:

It's not. Racism is tolerated to an extent in some corners, but not explicit racism.
Job titles of a few of the people who have been identified from the crowd that stormed the capitol: realtor (who flew on a private jet to DC), CEO, associate general counsel.

Trumpism isn't just hicks suffering economic anxiety.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 01-08-2021 11:20 AM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 530916)
It’s like he doesn’t even care that you got fat.

What kind of lawyer community is this?


Speaking of Community, I am re-watching it and it's still funny.

Replaced_Texan 01-08-2021 11:45 AM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 530921)
What kind of lawyer community is this?


Speaking of Community, I am re-watching it and it's still funny.

We're watching Ted Lasso and it's a goddamn delight. Definitely helpful in, er, troubled times.

LessinSF 01-08-2021 04:19 PM

Re: Objectively intelligent.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 530904)

Trespassing charges will be difficult to prove.


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