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-   -   Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=883)

Hank Chinaski 02-07-2019 04:11 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520733)
Setting aside that that isn't what I said, I'd apply "I think a long ago black face might be forgivable from someone with a demonstrated record of working for racial equality after they accept responsibility, admit wrongdoing, express understanding of the harm and seriously apologize" to a qualifying R as well. Although that record thing is not terribly likely for this hypothetical R.



Yeah, if someone is going to get credit for doing good, it's gotta be for doing good for the group that's harmed by the conduct.

So you give someone a pass if their record since the incident is to do what dems think positive? Got it. so you would give a hypothetical R a pass if he became a dem. You sir, are evolved.

Adder 02-07-2019 04:19 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 520735)
So you give someone a pass if their record since the incident is to do what dems think positive? Got it. so you would give a hypothetical R a pass if he became a dem. You sir, are evolved.

It's truly messed up that we've only got one party that has any interest in racial equity and that we think it's gotta be that way.

Hank Chinaski 02-07-2019 05:11 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520736)
It's truly messed up that we've only got one party that has any interest in addressing racial equity in the way that one party thinks we should address racial equality and that we think it's gotta be that way.

Fixed what you wrote to convey what you meant. Put aside the current trash, there are republicans that feel their policies are more likely to bring us closer to equality then the dem’s policies. Maybe they are wrong, but you are arguing circular.

Adder 02-07-2019 05:25 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 520737)
Fixed what you wrote to convey what you meant. Put aside the current trash, there are republicans that feel their policies are more likely to bring us closer to equality then the dem’s policies. Maybe they are wrong, but you are arguing circular.

Name one policy that the GOP has proposed in the last decade that was offered as a means of addressing racial equity.

Hank Chinaski 02-07-2019 05:31 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520738)
Name one policy that the GOP has proposed in the last decade that was offered as a means of addressing racial equity.

They (alotting for tons of actually racist haters) believe that cutting back gov and social safety net is actually how to best address racial and economic inequality. You dismiss that this is any way, let alone the best way, but for those that believe it, they think they are helping. So now a hypo senator who wore black face but has spent the last 20 years doing what he thinks best, cutting the size of gov and social peograms- you would not cut him slack since he is not doing what you think helps. That is entirely a politically based decision. The only way an R can do good by you is to embrace D policies. Own it, it applies to everyone.no shame.

Adder 02-07-2019 05:57 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 520739)
They (alotting for tons of actually racist haters) believe that cutting back gov and social safety net is actually how to best address racial and economic inequality. You dismiss that this is any way, let alone the best way, but for those that believe it, they think they are helping. So now a hypo senator who wore black face but has spent the last 20 years doing what he thinks best, cutting the size of gov and social peograms- you would not cut him slack since he is not doing what you think helps. That is entirely a politically based decision. The only way an R can do good by you is to embrace D policies. Own it, it applies to everyone.no shame.

Yeah, don’t believe that he believes that addresses racial equity or they he’s in the least motivTed by it.

I can imagine a conservative whose done charity work in the community that is credit though.

sebastian_dangerfield 02-07-2019 06:00 PM

Green New Deal
 
I understand coming out strong as negotiating leverage, but coming out 50 klicks north of Utopia isn’t the smartest start.

AOC has been shrewd so far. This appears to be youthful hubris.

Hank Chinaski 02-07-2019 06:23 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520740)
Yeah, don’t believe that he believes that addresses racial equity or they he’s in the least motivTed by it.

I can imagine a conservative whose done charity work in the community that is credit though.

No mas

Tyrone Slothrop 02-07-2019 06:31 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
What I don't understand about this mini-showdown between Whitaker and Nadler over the former's testimony and the latter's subpoena is, if Whitaker won't show up, Nadler is going to subpoena him, right? So where is Whitaker's leverage? "I won't do the thing you can force me to do unless you agree not to force me." maybe that works selling toilets, but it doesn't sound like a well-planned legal strategy. So maybe I am missing something.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-07-2019 06:32 PM

Re: Green New Deal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 520741)
I understand coming out strong as negotiating leverage, but coming out 50 klicks north of Utopia isn’t the smartest start.

AOC has been shrewd so far. This appears to be youthful hubris.

She's not playing for negotiating leverage in the next two years.

Also, unrelatedly, apropos of Sen. Klobuchar: Believe it. Terrible boss.

sebastian_dangerfield 02-08-2019 09:48 AM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 520743)
What I don't understand about this mini-showdown between Whitaker and Nadler over the former's testimony and the latter's subpoena is, if Whitaker won't show up, Nadler is going to subpoena him, right? So where is Whitaker's leverage? "I won't do the thing you can force me to do unless you agree not to force me." maybe that works selling toilets, but it doesn't sound like a well-planned legal strategy. So maybe I am missing something.

I can't speak to that specific issue. But my guess is, going forward, all Administration witnesses are going to stall and delay as much as possible. Grind out the clock to Election Day 2020.

Whitaker is limited in his non-compliance, as he has a license and certain ethical obligations. But I think as to most laymen in the Administration, and most document demands, they'll probably challenge Congress's ability to actually enforce the laws granting oversight. Force Congress to threaten contempt, force drawn out contempt hearings, appeal everything as far as possible, tie up Ds with competing inquiries in the Senate.

Trump may be a fool in many regards, but one thing he understands well is that a contract, or a law, is only as strong as the other side's ability to enforce it. He's used the line, "It's an LLC... And you don't have a personal guaranty. Good luck collecting any judgment" more than any other human who's walked the planet. I wouldn't be surprised to hear, "Go ahead... Hold us in contempt. What's that going to get you? More delay?" from this Administration.

Unlike Nixon, I don't think Trump has any respect for the process at all. He's going to treat this like a strip mall development loan workout.

sebastian_dangerfield 02-08-2019 09:53 AM

Re: Green New Deal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 520744)
She's not playing for negotiating leverage in the next two years.

Also, unrelatedly, apropos of Sen. Klobuchar: Believe it. Terrible boss.

I don't know jack about Klobuchar, but again: Is this what we decide who can run upon? That she's a lousy boss?

Patients who confuse excellent bedside manner with skill often make a grievous error.

ETA: Along these same lines, can we please retire this ludicrous platitude: "Character is destiny." John Meacham, the Peggy Noonan/Tom Friedman of historians, said this on Bill Maher the other night and I waited in vain for Maher to reply, "Really? Donald Trump is President. Stalin died of a stroke in his office. Goldman Sachs is... well, still in business. Or how about, say... Pol Pot?"

Along with belief in karma, or my favorite, "Everything happens for a reason," that comment about character is one of the greatest delusions out there. "It all comes out in the wash" also needs to go. The reason you think past sins come back to bite people in the ass is because the only time you hear about it is when it happens. What you don't hear about is the 10 trillion skeletons and past misdeeds wildly successful people keep hidden in their closets their entire lives.

And the biggest - the granddaddy of them all I'm hearing these days as the right replies to AOC is, "If you work hard enough, you make your own luck." Who made up this pile of horseshit? You can work your ass off your entire life and not get lucky. You can be a middling ne'er do well and fall into a plum position by happenstance of getting on the right elevator with the right person at the right time. (Zuckerberg's college roommate is worth billions, just for being his roommate.) Sure, you can increase your chance of getting lucky by putting yourself in situations where that elevator meeting is more likely to occur. But that's an incremental increase in likelihood barely north of a rounding error. And that luck is usually the sort that'll only put you one or two rungs up the ladder. The luck that gets you a yacht with more staff than guests is more analogous to playing the lottery.

End of rant.

Adder 02-08-2019 11:56 AM

Re: Green New Deal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 520746)
I don't know jack about Klobuchar, but again: Is this what we decide who can run upon? That she's a lousy boss?

I mean, this one is directly about ability to do the job. Presidents need staff.

Hank Chinaski 02-08-2019 12:25 PM

Re: Green New Deal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520747)
I mean, this one is directly about ability to do the job. Presidents need staff.

There are stats out there that 7 of the top 10 "staff turnover" senators are women, in a senate that is not 50% women. So either:

1 Most women are bad bosses, or
2 There is some misogyny going on in the staff ranks, and here I am afraid.

You and Ty, at long last, should be ashamed of the slurs you've cast.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-08-2019 12:36 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520738)
Name one policy that the GOP has proposed in the last decade that was offered as a means of addressing racial equity.

Well, obviously, getting rid of any semblance of affirmative action helps all the white boys suffering from racial inequities.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-08-2019 01:05 PM

Re: Green New Deal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 520746)
I don't know jack about Klobuchar, but again: Is this what we decide who can run upon? That she's a lousy boss?

Patients who confuse excellent bedside manner with skill often make a grievous error.

The kind of skills that make you a good Senator are not necessarily the kind of skills that make you a good President. Of course, many people vote for a candidate for other reasons than qualifications.

Hank Chinaski 02-08-2019 01:16 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 520749)
Well, obviously, getting rid of any semblance of affirmative action helps all the white boys suffering from racial inequities.

This is why this board is fun! Forget the main point (that one "forgives" only those of one's same beliefs/party), and focus on a reply to reply to reply to reply! Good work. But you keep proving my point- there are Rs (or libertarians?) who believe AA actually harms black people- (I don't so snarky replies will go w/o response)- to you that means a R who believes AA is bad can't prove "good since my blackface days." It is circular- the only way to repair is to lead a life following what I believe is the right way- since the other party doesn't, they haven't led the life that repairs- none of them have. just own it for goodness sake.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 02-08-2019 02:29 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Yesterday I attended a deposition in which the almost 70 year PI attorney was questioning a party witness. Not a main target. He personally claims to have recovered over $1B in his career for clients, and his firm claims to have recovered over $4B.

Why the hell is this guy still working? Why isn't someone else taking this secondary deposition? Why can't this guy provide, at the very least, a small snack like pretzels in his conference room? These kind of people drive me crazy. My brain doesn't understand it.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-08-2019 02:50 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 520751)
This is why this board is fun! Forget the main point (that one "forgives" only those of one's same beliefs/party), and focus on a reply to reply to reply to reply! Good work. But you keep proving my point- there are Rs (or libertarians?) who believe AA actually harms black people- (I don't so snarky replies will go w/o response)- to you that means a R who believes AA is bad can't prove "good since my blackface days." It is circular- the only way to repair is to lead a life following what I believe is the right way- since the other party doesn't, they haven't led the life that repairs- none of them have. just own it for goodness sake.

Does anyone really believe that AA directly harms black people? I think a view I've heard from thoughtful conservatives (I may be going to back to law school) revolves around a commitment to formal equality under the law, out of a mistrust that any departure from formal equality is pernicious because it can be twisted to bad ends. So the idea is not that AA itself is bad for black people, but that it undermines the principle of equality and in the long run will have other bad effects.

Adder 02-08-2019 02:55 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 520753)
Does anyone really believe that AA directly harms black people? I think a view I've heard from thoughtful conservatives (I may be going to back to law school) revolves around a commitment to formal equality under the law, out of a mistrust that any departure from formal equality is pernicious because it can be twisted to bad ends. So the idea is not that AA itself is bad for black people, but that it undermines the principle of equality and in the long run will have other bad effects.

I recall Clarence Thomas arguing that it harms him by raising doubt that he earned his achievements rather than had them handed to him.

This seems preferable to being systematically denied opportunities, but I believe her argued it in his (one of his?) books, which I most definitely did not read.

Hank Chinaski 02-08-2019 03:17 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 520752)
Yesterday I attended a deposition in which the almost 70 year PI attorney was questioning a party witness. Not a main target. He personally claims to have recovered over $1B in his career for clients, and his firm claims to have recovered over $4B.

Why the hell is this guy still working? Why isn't someone else taking this secondary deposition? Why can't this guy provide, at the very least, a small snack like pretzels in his conference room? These kind of people drive me crazy. My brain doesn't understand it.

1 He has no one capable of handling the simplest task.
2 Fuck you. Cut a check and I’ll buy you pretzels. Until then there is vending in the break room.

Have you had Pony on ignore all these years?

Hank Chinaski 02-08-2019 03:24 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520754)
I recall Clarence Thomas arguing that it harms him by raising doubt that he earned his achievements rather than had them handed to him.

This seems preferable to being systematically denied opportunities, but I believe her argued it in his (one of his?) books, which I most definitely did not read.

I think this is it. It’s “why” Roshunda, the very bright clerk for a judge in one of my cases, who joined my big law, was regulated to walking to court to file documents by the GPs in the lit group. She wasn’t hired because she was capable and a former law clerk, she was only there as the firm wanted diversity. I guess the theory goes you need to play into old fucks’ biases.

ferrets_bueller 02-08-2019 04:23 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 520753)
Does anyone really believe that AA directly harms black people?.


Clarence Thomas.

Adder 02-08-2019 04:37 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
How thinks they can blackmail Jeff Bezos? Or that pics of his dick are going to matter at all to Amazon or his massive fortune?

Still, takes some guts to call their bluff.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-08-2019 04:53 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 520751)
This is why this board is fun! Forget the main point (that one "forgives" only those of one's same beliefs/party), and focus on a reply to reply to reply to reply! Good work. But you keep proving my point- there are Rs (or libertarians?) who believe AA actually harms black people- (I don't so snarky replies will go w/o response)- to you that means a R who believes AA is bad can't prove "good since my blackface days." It is circular- the only way to repair is to lead a life following what I believe is the right way- since the other party doesn't, they haven't led the life that repairs- none of them have. just own it for goodness sake.

Look, I only scroll back so far.

But to your point, I have one relative who firmly believes that discrimination occurs because African-Americans are, on the whole, less intelligent and less motivated because they are genetically inferior (e.g., he buys Charles Murray hood, line and sinker). He thinks AA harms "them" because it demands more of them than they can handle.

Arguing with racists is hard.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-08-2019 05:40 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520754)
I recall Clarence Thomas arguing that it harms him by raising doubt that he earned his achievements rather than had them handed to him.

I would be more inclined to think that people like Thomas truly believe that if anyone ever expressed the thought that white people must face doubts that they have earned their achievements rather than getting them because people of color face massive discrimination.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-08-2019 05:44 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller (Post 520757)
Clarence Thomas.

I'm going to say the same thing I just said in a different way. He seems to think AA is a problem because it gives people an ostensible reason for bias. That only makes sense if you really think bias is caused by government programs, and not by all the other things that have caused bias ever.

Hank Chinaski 02-08-2019 05:55 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520758)
How thinks they can blackmail Jeff Bezos? Or that pics of his dick are going to matter at all to Amazon or his massive fortune?

Still, takes some guts to call their bluff.

I can see how you and ggg think that way, but Bezos’s penis is actually smaller than most (nttawwt) so it could have worked.

Hank Chinaski 02-08-2019 05:58 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 520759)
Look, I only scroll back so far.

But to your point, I have one relative who firmly believes that discrimination occurs because African-Americans are, on the whole, less intelligent and less motivated because they are genetically inferior (e.g., he buys Charles Murray hood, line and sinker). He thinks AA harms "them" because it demands more of them than they can handle.

Arguing with racists is hard.

I have one ex relative who got cane on by her movie son in an American Pie direct to video episode. Your relative and my ex relative have equal import to the point I was making.

Replaced_Texan 02-08-2019 06:02 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520758)
How thinks they can blackmail Jeff Bezos? Or that pics of his dick are going to matter at all to Amazon or his massive fortune?

Still, takes some guts to call their bluff.

I just finished Bad Blood, and the last quarter of the book is about David Boies's firm trying to stop the Wall Street Journal from publishing the articles that took Theranos down. There was some shady, shady shit involved there, and the PI industry is well paid to dig up dirt in these cases.

ETA: This article on Boies's fall from grace is pretty interesting. I didn't know about the book litigation.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 02-08-2019 06:09 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 520755)
1 He has no one capable of handling the simplest task.
2 Fuck you. Cut a check and I’ll buy you pretzels. Until then there is vending in the break room.

Have you had Pony on ignore all these years?

Man the elderly are angry.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-08-2019 07:01 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 520765)
Man the elderly are angry.

Yeah, they have attention issues, sometimes, too.

Pretty Little Flower 02-08-2019 07:40 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 520765)
Man the elderly are angry.

Wait until you get old. We'll see how fucking unangry you are.

Hank Chinaski 02-08-2019 08:51 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 520767)
Wait until you get old. We'll see how fucking unangry you are.

Where the fuck is my “like” button.

Adder 02-08-2019 10:41 PM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 520760)
I would be more inclined to think that people like Thomas truly believe that if anyone ever expressed the thought that white people must face doubts that they have earned their achievements rather than getting them because people of color face massive discrimination.

Excellent point.

Adder 02-08-2019 10:43 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 520765)
Man the elderly are angry.

Why aren’t we hanging with a younger crowd, dude?

Hank Chinaski 02-09-2019 12:40 AM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520769)
Excellent point.

Then maybe he should make it to someone not in the choir?

LessinSF 02-09-2019 06:39 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 520770)
Why aren’t we hanging with a younger crowd, dude?

Speak for yourself. I am seeing a 23-year old self-descrbed pansexual.

LessinVancouver

Adder 02-09-2019 10:09 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 520772)
Speak for yourself. I am seeing a 23-year old self-descrbed pansexual.

LessinVancouver

Who was talking to you, old man?

Adder 02-09-2019 10:13 PM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 
Awkward thought that these boards are sorta for: I’ve always thought Jessica Williams, who is smart and super funny, was quite attractive and never thought of her as having a lighter complexion (was gonna say “light skinned” but that seemed weird from me even though you hear it that way). Then Lupita was on 2 Dope Queens and made me question everything.

Anywho, Lupita is absolutely stunning and has completely stunning skin (yeah, that last bit is likely a bit racist).


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