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-   -   Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a row (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=845)

Hank Chinaski 12-08-2009 06:20 PM
submitted for your approval--
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 409835)
Dork friends of mine were recently chatting about the total and compete fuck up in casting Halle Berry as Storm for the X-men movies. And in the course of the conversation, we realized that there is no other actress that could meet the criteria that we assume went into the casting: A black, A-list actress at the peak of her game. No one else cast in the first movie had individual box office draw. At that point, no one knew who Hugh Jackman was. Anna Paquin, Famke Janssen and James Marsten weren't all that big. The LOTR movies weren't out until the following year, and there are only so many Next Generation geeks. Angela Basset would have been a perfect Storm, but she was too old when the movie came out. Halle Berry wasn't a great match, but she was all that was out there.

Then we realized that right now, with the possible exception of Halle Berry, there aren't any A-List black actresses at all. All of the black women cast in big roles in movies these days are moonlighting pop stars, like Beyonce, Jennifer Hudson and Mariah Carrey. It's extremely likely that the Academy Award for best actress will go to a black woman, but does anyone realistically think that Gabby Sidibe is ever going to be able to parlay that into an A-List career?

Honestly, can anyone think of an A-List black actress? We ran through TV and movies and drew a lot of blanks.
you don't think a big part of Halle getting that role was the public revelation she actually is a mutant?

Hank Chinaski 12-08-2009 06:22 PM
Re: Welcome back E/O, leagl and Fringey: no one say the name "Penske" 3 times in a ro
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironweed (Post 409854)
they know how I think.
damn. outside of Quantico have you ever been able to say that before?

Atticus Grinch 12-08-2009 06:51 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Manfred (Post 409803)
First, ABBA's situation is the best rebuttal to the poster who argue that mandatory arrest statutes should be repealed.
That poster was me. I defer to your greater experience with regard to the criminal consequences of DV, but I remain convinced that mandatory arrest laws impose too high a cost to the autonomy of women measured against the obvious benefit of penalizing shitbag abusers. You deal with the criminal justice aspect; my line of work intersects with all of the other social services that the family relies upon while Dad sits in jail and thinks about what he has done. The idea that a victim does not have sole say in the consequences of a crime is a wonderful development -- in fact, it make be a useful hallmark of a civilized society -- but depriving police officers of discretion in making arrests is (in my view) nearly always a statement of frustration by well-intentioned legislators that the facts in this world are not as we would like them to be, so we will proceed bull-headedly to behave as though they are as we believe.

At one point on the Infirm boards someone asked why left-wingers are pro-gay but anti-prostitution and anti-polygamy. My response was that leftists believe the social benefits of sex are maximized, and detriments minimized, when the willfulness of consent is cross-checked with the hypothetical response of a well-educated, wealthy, and sober rational actor. Gay sex passes; prostitution and polygamy fail. So, too, with DV. Must-arrest is a policy that asks "What Would a Vassar Grad Do?" and jails the motherfucker whether the living breathing people in the room -- all of them -- want to or not.

LessinSF 12-08-2009 07:10 PM
Re: Tiger
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 409835)
Honestly, can anyone think of an A-List black actress? We ran through TV and movies and drew a lot of blanks.
Where does Ericka Dunlap, Miss America 2004, and final 3 contestant (I won't spoil the ending) on this season's Amazing Race rate? On her hotness and black features, not her acting. http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...&aq=f&oq=&aqi= (google images)

Sidd Finch 12-08-2009 07:14 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 409846)
I guess your point is to get Abba to stop thinking and/or acting like a victim, which is valid. She has gotten plenty of advice along those lines. We are also here to make her feel better. And given the fact that the post you're responding to is really only advice to keep her safe, I don't know what you're accomplishing by continuing to pound this "she's not a victim" point.

TM
The post I responded to was about mandatory arrest. Which, as Jack acknowledges, would only happen if her ex hit her. Which has nothing to do with advice to keep her safe. Flinty's post on staying safe was a few days ago, and other than a bunch of "2s" to that there wasn't any response.

Other than that, you are right -- I will follow your lead, consider carefully what each of my posts accomplishes, and choose not to respond further. You are my posting Yoda.

Sidd Finch 12-08-2009 07:17 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 409862)
That poster was me. I defer to your greater experience with regard to the criminal consequences of DV, but I remain convinced that mandatory arrest laws impose too high a cost to the autonomy of women measured against the obvious benefit of penalizing shitbag abusers. You deal with the criminal justice aspect; my line of work intersects with all of the other social services that the family relies upon while Dad sits in jail and thinks about what he has done. The idea that a victim does not have sole say in the consequences of a crime is a wonderful development -- in fact, it make be a useful hallmark of a civilized society -- but depriving police officers of discretion in making arrests is (in my view) nearly always a statement of frustration by well-intentioned legislators that the facts in this world are not as we would like them to be, so we will proceed bull-headedly to behave as though they are as we believe.

At one point on the Infirm boards someone asked why left-wingers are pro-gay but anti-prostitution and anti-polygamy. My response was that leftists believe the social benefits of sex are maximized, and detriments minimized, when the willfulness of consent is cross-checked with the hypothetical response of a well-educated, wealthy, and sober rational actor. Gay sex passes; prostitution and polygamy fail. So, too, with DV. Must-arrest is a policy that asks "What Would a Vassar Grad Do?" and jails the motherfucker whether the living breathing people in the room -- all of them -- want to or not.

I'm pro-prostitution.

LessinSF 12-08-2009 07:23 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 409865)
I'm pro-prostitution.
I'm pro-prostitution, pro-polygamy, neutral on beastiality, and in favor of appropriate domestic violence, such as spanking the monkey.

ThurgreedMarshall 12-08-2009 07:32 PM
Re: Tiger
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheval de frise (Post 409856)
ETA that Angela Bassett is a good actress (and is/was smokin').
Absolutely beautiful. And she has only just now, at age 51, started to age.

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 12-08-2009 07:51 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 409862)
That poster was me. I defer to your greater experience with regard to the criminal consequences of DV, but I remain convinced that mandatory arrest laws impose too high a cost to the autonomy of women measured against the obvious benefit of penalizing shitbag abusers. You deal with the criminal justice aspect; my line of work intersects with all of the other social services that the family relies upon while Dad sits in jail and thinks about what he has done. The idea that a victim does not have sole say in the consequences of a crime is a wonderful development -- in fact, it make be a useful hallmark of a civilized society -- but depriving police officers of discretion in making arrests is (in my view) nearly always a statement of frustration by well-intentioned legislators that the facts in this world are not as we would like them to be, so we will proceed bull-headedly to behave as though they are as we believe.
This is all very heady, but isn't the law the way it is because once the offender knew the cops were coming, he would just threaten the woman (in most cases) to say nothing was going on with the understanding that if (i) if she didn't act like nothing was wrong or (ii) if he went to jail, there would be absolute hell to pay? Doesn't this remove (to some extent) that consequence since people in this position understand that the cops are taking them in no matter what either person says (even over the sometimes false protests of the victim)? If that's the case, it would seem that a night in jail would be more of a cooling off period than an opportunity for the rage in the offender to grow to murderous proportions.

And wasn't it also drawn up the way it is now because police had proven time and time again that they were incapable of using their discretion in these situations, often just siding with the guy and telling the couple to handle the problem on their own at great risk to the woman?

I don't think the law was drafted simply as a statement of frustration. And, once again, you give the police way too much credit.

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 12-08-2009 07:53 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 409864)
The post I responded to was about mandatory arrest. Which, as Jack acknowledges, would only happen if her ex hit her. Which has nothing to do with advice to keep her safe. Flinty's post on staying safe was a few days ago, and other than a bunch of "2s" to that there wasn't any response.

Other than that, you are right -- I will follow your lead, consider carefully what each of my posts accomplishes, and choose not to respond further. You are my posting Yoda.
My dick, you may suck.

TM

LessinSF 12-08-2009 08:12 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 409868)
This is all very heady, but isn't the law the way it is because once the offender knew the cops were coming, he would just threaten the woman (in most cases) to say nothing was going on with the understanding that if (i) if she didn't act like nothing was wrong or (ii) if he went to jail, there would be absolute hell to pay? Doesn't this remove (to some extent) that consequence since people in this position understand that the cops are taking them in no matter what either person says (even over the sometimes false protests of the victim)? If that's the case, it would seem that a night in jail would be more of a cooling off period than an opportunity for the rage in the offender to grow to murderous proportions.

And wasn't it also drawn up the way it is now because police had proven time and time again that they were incapable of using their discretion in these situations, often just siding with the guy and telling the couple to handle the problem on their own at great risk to the woman?

I don't think the law was drafted simply as a statement of frustration. And, once again, you give the police way too much credit.

TM
I understood those laws to be, as you say, based on having a simple, bright-line rule for the police to apply that has the effect of always separating the parties, i.e we err on the side of caution and don't leave them together after an allegation of DV.

Sidd Finch 12-08-2009 08:23 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 409869)
My dick, you may suck.

TM
Small it is, and green.

Adder 12-08-2009 08:26 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 409866)
I'm pro-prostitution, pro-polygamy, neutral on beastiality, and in favor of appropriate domestic violence, such as spanking the monkey.
Are you "the left?"

I'm with Sidd on pro-prostitution, despite my aversion to personal participation.

Sidd Finch 12-08-2009 08:26 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 409868)
This is all very heady, but isn't the law the way it is because once the offender knew the cops were coming, he would just threaten the woman (in most cases) to say nothing was going on with the understanding that if (i) if she didn't act like nothing was wrong or (ii) if he went to jail, there would be absolute hell to pay? Doesn't this remove (to some extent) that consequence since people in this position understand that the cops are taking them in no matter what either person says (even over the sometimes false protests of the victim)? If that's the case, it would seem that a night in jail would be more of a cooling off period than an opportunity for the rage in the offender to grow to murderous proportions.

And wasn't it also drawn up the way it is now because police had proven time and time again that they were incapable of using their discretion in these situations, often just siding with the guy and telling the couple to handle the problem on their own at great risk to the woman?

I don't think the law was drafted simply as a statement of frustration. And, once again, you give the police way too much credit.

TM
I think you're right. Not to give legislators too much credit, but I'm not willing to concede to Atticus that they simply ignored the other costs on families that the bright-line rule might impose. Rather, they saw those as outweighed by the dangers of police not making arrests in DV cases.

AoN, I have a friend whose (now, thankfully, ex) husband hit her. She called the police. He responded by going to his study and pinching his arm until it turned into a large black-and-blue mark. When the police arrived, he claimed that she had hit him (she didn't have any marks). Police arrested her. As AG points out, sometimes these rules backfire. But, again, you need to look at the balance.

Sidd Finch 12-08-2009 08:27 PM
Re: One more post about ABBA...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 409872)
Are you "the left?"

I'm with Sidd on pro-prostitution, despite my aversion to personal participation.
That's your attitude on sex in general, so no big surprise.


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