Look at me, I'm a size Zero! And a size 10!
 

For me, I need the larger size tops in part because of the boobs but mostly because I have broad shoulders and a large rib cage (apparently, given that every bridesmaids dress I have ever tried on had to be taken out in the rib cage and boobs and pulled in at the waist). My jackets tend to need to be ordered larger to accomodate my bone structure.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! And a size 10!
 

Yay, she finally arrived. Fashionably late of course. Maybe she can asnwer the question about how sizes convert- from 29 to 8? 30 to 10? And whether Lucky jeans dont run big- ie a Lucky 8 is an 8 and not a 10

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! And a size 10!
 

I size 10 skirt? That is scary. What, so you have a breast to hip ratio of .8 to .7?

Just(I'm a size 2 AND I got straight A's in math)ForFun

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! And a size 10!
 

The same thing might be said about my pants. :p

spooky(never one to bypass the cheap joke)fish

Thurgreeds Deep Thoughts
 

I give up. You're a knucklehead.

Name one big female star today with perfect measurements who wasn't considered at one point to be a flash-in-the-pan, talent-impaired starlet.

Now you'll say, but Marilyn would be considered such and fat. And I'll say, wrong. If she had to break in as super small, she might have. But she would become an icon because of who she was and would be able to get away with carrying more weight because of her voice, beauty and sex-appeal.

Thurgreed(enough)Marshall

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! And a size 10!
 

Too bad. According to that aforementioned poll of American men, you need to be force fed.

Thurgreeds Deep Thoughts
 

Please, MM would have posed for Playboy, which she did, banged Hugh Hefner and a few chicks at the Playboy Mansion for awhile, taken a few roles in B movies, gotten into heroin and then got her own E True Hollywood Story followed by her own E reality show. And we would all comment on how pretty she used to be and how fat she got.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

I think part of the reason men are still obsessed with Marilyn is that she oozed vulnerability as well as sexuality. That's an unusual combination that cannot be imitated, and certainly can't be pulled off on screen by a woman with rock hard abs and angular features. A man might want to wrestle with Jennifer Garner, but being with a woman who can kick your ass does not have the same fundamental appeal as being with a sex goddess who also seems to need you to take care of her.

And I'm not making any generalizations about what men are looking for in women or any crap like that. I'm talking about Marilyn as an icon.
Sadly, the vulnerability that helped make Marilyn a star and an icon of a particular kind of femininity also made it impossible for her to survive in Hollywood. The fact that celebrity chewed her up is also part of her lasting appeal.

Bad Moon Rising
 

But now who's gonna play with Gogogowolf?

not7y(about time you got your cute ass over here)S

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! And a size 10!
 

TM, I think you're utterly discounting the impact "live fast, die young and leave a good-looking-corpse" has on icon-hood. Would anyone give a crap about Diana 30 years from now if she hadn't been a tragic short-lived beauty, instead of just another princess humiliated by her wussy royal husband and his horse-faced mistress? Or James Dean, if he'd lived to be a dessicated old drunk? Would you lionize Marilyn so much if she'd lived, like fellow celebrated beauty Jane Russell, to be an old, wrinkly bra spokeswoman?

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Which just goes to show you how much men like breast implants.

Feast (no pun intended) your eyes on this, boys!
http://www.happywomanmagazine.com/Im...oleSmithB9.jpg

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

You know, it IS possible to overgeneralize in this area . . .

(We don't ALL want wimply breathless little thangs fainting and cooing around us. Give me a kickboxer any day . . . )

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

So let me get this straight. You're saying there is a place for voluptious women in today's entertainment industry and a market that is currently being filled by...Marilyn? Yet Marilyn wouldn't be a star today?

I'm not saying she would be as big a star as she was. But she would be popular. I'm not going to argue it anymore.

Yeah. I remember never seeing Anna Nicole Smith on any magazine covers at the height of her fame.

What the fuck are you saying? I'm not saying she would totally revamp today's beauty ideal, assjack. I'm saying there would be a place for her.

TM

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Yikes. Is that you JFF? I thought you said you were hot?

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Bilmore, you did read my whole post, didn't you? I clearly stated that I did not intend to generalize. "Fundamental appeal" was not meant to imply "universal appeal."

r(not wimpy, not breathless, growls rather than coos, but kickboxer? no.)p

Thurgreeds Deep Thoughts
 

Now THIS is an answer. And if she did those things, that'd be fine with me. Although I think you misunderestimate her drive.

TM

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

No, that is Anna, Anna, Anna, Anna, Anna Nicole.

This is similar to what I look like:

http://www.ritchieswimwear.com/gif2003/bbr1_2.jpg

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! And a size 10!
 

Good point.

But I think it's not the live fast, die young attitude that makes her such a huge icon still. I think it's that we can only remember her as a young beauty. Dying young ensured us that she would always be remembered that way.

But my point still stands. We remember her that way because we are obsessed with who she was and how she looked in her prime. Therefore, if she came up now, that same appeal would apply (to a certain extent).

TM

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

No, I read it, and saw it as saying that you think "universal appeal" means "everybody likes it", while "fundamental appeal" means "it's the icon of beauty", and wondered what the difference would be. I don't know that we have just one icon of beauty. (Well, besides JFF, now that we've seen her pic.)

MM
 

The problem with this argument is that there is no answer. It's not like there is a parallel universe in which Marilyn Monroe was born in 1975 and we can just go look it up to see what happened.

As much as I love Marilyn, I doubt that she would have made it today. Her sex appeal developed over time, and I just don't think she would get her foot in the door. Norma Jean was a very pretty girl, but the world is full of super skinny pretty girls. Who knows how many other Marilyns are waiting tables or working at the DMV because we live in a world where size 6 is considered fat.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Worse, Washington DC - a satire unto itself.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Interesting. When I describe my looks, I am usually referring to my face, not my torso. In fact, when I think about what anyone looks like, it is the face, not the body, that comes to mind. Come to think of it, in all those posts where you discuss your figure, you rarely mention your face. Is it perhaps because you are ugly? Maybe that is why your boyfriend must see you naked in order to get turned on.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

No, I meant fundamental appeal in a basic, primal sense; that Marilyn's vulnerability taps into, for some men, a protective urge, which may be mixed with sexual desire.

Like you, I don't think she was the single icon of beauty, just one icon (as in image, symbol, or emblem). Personally, I don't get it.

I'd rather be Lauren Bacall or Audrey Hepburn any day.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

"Similar to"? Anti up or shut up, petunia.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Been there, done that. She's all hat and no cattle.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

I am a cutie. However, if I posted a pic of a woman with a similar face, that could be outable.

My boyfriend is hot for me 24/7. As I have mentioned, I dress very conservatively and keep my body under wraps. So when I get naked, it is a real treat for him.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

You're probably too tall and too literate to have much dating success in D.C.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Excellent point. It certainly can't be from her personality. I have this image of a verging-on-long-in-the-tooth woman secretly terrified of age and inevitable decay cavorting endlessly in front of a mirror chanting, "I'm so hot! I'm so hot! I'm still so hot!"

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Ah, DC. Our nation's SLUT capital*




*Short Little Umbrella Toters.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

My abs are more defined. However, every pic I find that shows a woman with defined abs, the woman has arms that are too bulky compared to mine. So similar to means that I look like that but with more defined abs. Not too defined, but more defined than in that picture.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Interesting. I, otoh, have this image of a youthful metrosexual in Seattle chuckling over his sock drawer.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Something like this?

http://images.bravenet.com/brpics/smilie/umbrella.gif

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

My point was, everyone looks "similar to" to everyone else in one way or another. Post a picture of your actual self, or shut up about it.

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Great. Another pencil-armed aging skeletor who couldn't do a pull-up if her shoes were on fire. Just what we need. (We need better icons.)

Pulitzer Winners Announced
 

Caro, Adams Win Arts Pulitzers
By ERIN McCLAM, Associated Press Writer

"NEW YORK - The 2003 Pulitzer Prize for biography was awarded Monday to Robert A. Caro for "Master of the Senate," the third volume of his biography of Lyndon Johnson.

It was the second Pulitzer captured by Caro, who won in 1975 for his acclaimed biography "The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York."

"Master of the Senate" won the National Book Award in November. The third of four planned volumes, it deals with Johnson's rise from his election to national office in the late 1940s to his ascension as Senate majority leader in 1954.

....

The prize for fiction went to "Middlesex," by Jeffrey Eugenides, a Detroit native now living in Berlin with his wife and daughter. His first novel, "The Virgin Suicides," was an international best seller. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...pulitzers_arts

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

I'd take it one step further. Not only is there not just one icon or fundamental notion of beauty, there isn't a fundamental form.

I agree that I would probabaly find Liv Tyler more attractive than Mia in a lingerie photo spread, I would not either one out from under the covers. And I certainly wouldn't go attributing some inherent moral or social superiority to Liv based on her dress size.

They both have the same eyes, capable of being both innocent and alluring at the same time. And those are what I find myself drawn to to begin with.

I just find the whole obssession with size rEdiculous to begin with. Too much either way is unattractive.

Pulitzer Winners Announced
 

And today's from the ridiculous to the sublime award goes to evenodds!

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

ABBAKiss, the brillance of your post is unrivaled. Why don't we all post pictures of ourselves, and if we don't, then none of us can make any comments about how we look IRL, 'kay?

Look at me, I'm a size Zero! Who needs clothes?
 

Terrific!

Pulitzer Prize Winners Announced
 

Haven't read any of the LBJ books, but the Caro book about Robert Moses (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/03...1.THUMBZZZ.jpg) is amazing. Huge, but amazing. It explains so much of why New York is designed the way it is (usually because that's what Moses wanted to do). And Moses' personal story is a little like King Lear. At 1246 pages, not to pick up if you've got JFF's biceps, but it's very compelling.