Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 484310)

I'm not advocating for laws to address it. But it seems clear that teacher and admin intervention does little to nothing, especially when so much of it springs from online activity.

I'm sure you understand that this type of labeling doesn't just occur when a girl hooks up with a guy "too early." The causes are many, including refusing to hook up on demand, not being interested at all, or just being unliked. Labeling a girl a slut is about a boy exerting power over her.

Again, I haven't said shit about laws. But I don't think you understand the extent of how this problem has grown. It just isn't like anything you or I experienced growing up. And, although it doesn't always end in suicide, it is a huge problem.

TM

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 484294)

I was wrong. The anti-bullying alarmists aren't seeking to pass laws against it. They have already done so: http://www.stopbullying.gov/laws

And given the rule no self-righteous zealot is ever satisfied, we can expect a whole lot more where that came from... Clogging already understaffed police departments and courts with ridiculous technical claims.

I don't see "kids will be kids" as macho bullshit. The worst bullying doesn't involve men at all. In almost every horror story about bullied kids killing themselves, the culprits are female. Guys will physically attack each other, or talk shit to one another, but the conflict has an end. They ague, fight, and it's over. Girls never forget. They never let go. The torture persists indefinitely, passive-aggressively, and corrosively over weeks, months, and even years. The real face of bullying is a female between 9 and 18.

Your sex should be better than that.

Originally Posted by dtb (Post 484317)

I agree 100% with all of this. Surely there are options for addressing the issue that are neither hiding one's head in the sand or passing laws about it (the straw man Sebby offered up.)

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 484311)

http://www.businessinsider.com/ashle...awsuit-2013-11

Let's go make us some money.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 484302)

Recent as in last two or three hundred years? Quarantines go way, way back, of course, but I think the development of the smallpox vaccine at the end of the 18th century put government public health measures on steroids.

With the puritan influence, Massachusetts had a history from 1620 on of regulating all sorts of things that would surprise us now, all for the greater good and the spiritual and physical health of the community. We had laws on what could be eaten, what could be worn, and what could be read, all in the name of preventing bad behavior.

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 484303)

The John Snow reference was to 1854 and the mark of modern epidemiology.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 484307)

This is lamentable, and should be stopped through intervention of teachers, school admin, etc. Not by passing another fucking law that'll wind up having all sorts of negative unintended consequences.



This is a tricky one. I'll admit, it is hard to change the behavior of someone dumb enough to shame a girl for hooking up with him, thus likely precluding future hook ups. A guy who doesn't grasp that he's screwing up his own good thing is probably hopeless.



Neither do I. But I know we've got more important shit to address as a nation. And more silly laws and zero tolerance ordinances are the last things we need.

Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 484323)

You're right, it isn't a national problem. It's usually a simple case of assault, for which the bully ought to be tossed in a cell with some real tough guys for a few days.

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 484324)

Creating an even angrier super-bully? That ain't the answer.

TM

Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 484325)

I don't really know what the answer is, TM. I am thinking that with many bullies, an object lesson that they aren't the biggest, baddest motherfucker on the playground may be exactly what they need.

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 484309)

I think, once again, that you're just making shit up. Bullying of gay boys is very common and results in all sorts of fucked up shit, including suicide. And gay boys are, in fact, boys.

And the fact that girls kill themselves due to bullying is often linked to bullying performed by boys (see my last post) labeling them whores.

TM

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 484307)

This is lamentable, and should be stopped through intervention of teachers, school admin, etc. Not by passing another fucking law that'll wind up having all sorts of negative unintended consequences.

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 484327)

A "macho" kid was routinely telling my nephew (who I would guess is gay but has not necessary self-identified as such) that he would beat the shit out of him in the gym locker room.

Ah, kids will be kids. Nothing to worry about here. I'm ashamed of my sister for coddling her son and not letting him learn the "life is tough" lesson -- y'know, the way Matthew Shepard did.

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 484298)

It's a public health thing, which is also a fairly recent development. I'm for public health, as various letters behind my name can attest. Small pox and (most) polio and a variety of other awful diseases have been eradicated because of public health efforts, and many, many health problems are behavior based these days.

Originally Posted by dtb (Post 484317)

Surely there are options for addressing the issue that are neither hiding one's head in the sand or passing laws about it (the straw man Sebby offered up.)

Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 484325)

I don't really know what the answer is, TM.