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-   -   Fashion Board 12-09-03 through 1-08-04 (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511)

taxwonk 01-08-2004 02:12 PM

Poster Boys
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Well, if he's a tax guy, who cares what he looks like.
Tax groupies, Monsieur Assclam. I had a hottie tell me I had a nice ass at lunch today, so I know they exist.

Quote:

I wouldn't want a tax guy who looked or acted like me. That would scare the shit out of me if I was a client.
The mere idea makes me shudder on behalf of clients and tax guys everywhere.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-08-2004 02:15 PM

Disco Stu never lies
 
Quote:

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
Big ups to Coltrane for the Disco Stu pic.

On lying:

Good liars do all the things that Coltrane and Atticus suggested. I also think that the number one way to get caught in a lie is inconsistencies, and someone picking up on inconsistencies. I could never lie to my wife because she has a freaky-scary memory about minutae that I've said months, even years before. She, however, can lie to me because unless something involves sports, cards, TV or numbers, I have the concentration-skills of a housecat with ADD. Therefore, another key to lying is an honest assessment of the memory/mental acuity of yourself, and the person you're lying to. The amount/number of lies you'll be able to get away with is a function of your ability to keep your shit straight, and the lie-ee's abillity to remember the shit that would be your undoing.

On lying to your boss when calling in sick:
Don't hack and cough and shit. Sound perfectly normal. No first hand experience with this, just a feeling that underacting>overacting.

Anyone know anybody who got busted for lying to their boss about something serious? Any good stories? How about anyone who got busted for cheating on their spouse? How did it they get caught? Or if they got away with it, what were their success tips for getting away with it?
I was counsel in a case way back in a jurisdiction where I'd let my license lapse. After we got the case, I sent in the paperwork to fix the lapse, but the jurisdiction told me I had to complete certain classes which were not offered for 30-45 days. Since we took the case from another firm, it was close to trial. I was technically not allowed to be in Court for all of the discovery hearings I did and almost up until trial, but did regain full activity two weeks before trial. It was a bit nerve wracking, but like most things, it turned out OK.

paigowprincess 01-08-2004 02:16 PM

Poster Boys
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
I love this post so much I had to quote it.

I am going to start referring to people this way to their faces.

"Hey, chick known as my mom, can you watch the Brazenette this weekend?"

"Hey, cat known as my dad, can I borrow $100?"

"Hey, incompetent sow known as my secretary, could you start filing documents in the correct client files so coke whore known as me could find them when asshole known as Partner asks me about them?"

While Paigow coined this, I'd like to opine that I invented this.
Hey Invention Stealer Known as You, you cannot invent something coined by someoen else. Be sure to pass that info along to Future Fuzzy Navel Pounder at Senior Prom known as the brazenette.

taxwonk 01-08-2004 02:17 PM

HOW TO LIE WELL?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by str8outavannuys

What are your surefire tips/techniques for lying convincingly and getting away with it. Pick your favorite situation(s) and explain. Lying to spouse? Family? Boss? Client?

Corrollary: How do you (or people you've observed) lie badly? What mistakes do they make?
Two simple rules. If you're going to lie, make it big. And keep it simple. If you come up with some convoluted story about why you're late for the meeting, it's the little details you throw out gratuitously that will trip you up. Nobody challenges a four-car pileup with fatalities on the freeway that kept you boxed in for an hour.

SlaveNoMore 01-08-2004 02:17 PM

Plastic Spoon
 
Quote:

paigowprincess
the cat known as my dad paid for it.
Shocker!!!!!!

paigowprincess 01-08-2004 02:19 PM

Poster Boys
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Tax groupies, Monsieur Assclam. I had a hottie tell me I had a nice ass at lunch today, so I know they exist.



The mere idea makes me shudder on behalf of clients and tax guys everywhere.
Mr. Anderson, I am mainly sure the IRS knows I am mostly corret when I say you won't get audited.

taxwonk 01-08-2004 02:19 PM

Various
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
6. Do I seem cranky today?
Actually, you seem uncharacteristically good-natured today.

Namaste.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-08-2004 02:19 PM

Poster Boys
 
Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Dude, do you honestly think that navy blue expensive suits are who I am? I believe the chick known as my mom picked out the suit and the cat known as my dad paid for it.
Well, my suit isn't really me either, but if I'm forced to wear a suit, the ones I wear are most indicative of my personality.

My folks never buy me clothes. I take everything they get me back.

Navy? Fuck navy. Borrrrrring.

bold_n_brazen 01-08-2004 02:21 PM

Poster Boys
 
Quote:

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Hey Invention Stealer Known as You, you cannot invent something coined by someoen else. Be sure to pass that info along to Future Fuzzy Navel Pounder at Senior Prom known as the brazenette.
Hey Pot-Calling-the-Kettle-Black known as Paigow, I'll stop inventing stuff first said by someone else when you do. Until then, ____________known as __________ was invented by man-pleaser extraordinaire known as me.

sebastian_dangerfield 01-08-2004 02:23 PM

HOW TO LIE WELL?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Two simple rules. If you're going to lie, make it big. And keep it simple. If you come up with some convoluted story about why you're late for the meeting, it's the little details you throw out gratuitously that will trip you up. Nobody challenges a four-car pileup with fatalities on the freeway that kept you boxed in for an hour.
Also, don't explain yourself until someone asks. Walking in saying "Sorry, I'm late because...." Is like saying, "My canned excuse is as follows..." Wait for the asshole to ask you, then say "personal issue, won't happen again" politely and click your pen or adjust your glasses to give body language that says "I'm not discussing it and lets move on to the business at hand."

Shape Shifter 01-08-2004 02:23 PM

Disco Stu never lies
 
Quote:

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
On lying to your boss when calling in sick:
Don't hack and cough and shit. Sound perfectly normal. No first hand experience with this, just a feeling that underacting>overacting.
Another tip: When using the old "caught in a circus train" excuse for being late, make sure the circus is actually in town. As the saying goes, good judgment comes from experience, which comes from bad judgment.

ThrashersFan 01-08-2004 02:24 PM

text messaging
 
Quote:

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
[Text messaging questions]

*I feel like Prince whenever I type this kind of stuff. But it seems to be de rigueur for text messaging, so when in Rome..
Great White North? Since when does that mean Florida? I am shocked..well, not really. Does the FB get an assist for helping you with the text messaging?

A music teacher carried on a 19-month sexual relationship with a boy she seduced when he was 11 years old, authorities said.

The boy's mother became suspicious when she found sexually suggestive text messages on his cell phone, investigators said.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107716,00.html

Bad_Rich_Chic 01-08-2004 02:24 PM

HOW TO LIE WELL?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
What are your surefire tips/techniques for lying convincingly and getting away with it. Pick your favorite situation(s) and explain. Lying to spouse? Family? Boss? Client?
(i) Stick as close to the truth as possible. The more actual truth in the lie, the easier it is to keep points straight (because you don't have to invent them & memorize them) and more of your story will check out. (This is the "if your alibi is a night at the movies, then be sure you describe a night that you have actually had" murder strategy - if you sneak out of the movie to kill Great-Uncle Jebbediah before he can change his will, this will become obvious when you can't describe the plot of the movie.)

(ii) Since I usually lie these days to get out of some fuckup or other, I've found acting really distressed/appologetic about the situation, while telling a story that makes it clear that absolutely nothing is my fault, is quite effective.

(iii) best lying advice I ever got was from Dolores Clairborne. Before answering any question, breathe in and count to two. Gives your internal fact-checkers a moment to catch up and kick in. See also (iv) below on staying calm.

(iv) Similar to "keep your hands at your side" and "don't touch your face/rub your neck," spend some effort to remain physically relaxed.

(v) If someone starts picking around the truth, ride it out and play dumb. Stop for a minute, think about it, and then say you don't understand. With any luck they will think they are saying something stupid and drop it.

(vi) my version of the George Costanza thing: reality is subjective. (Read more epistemology if you want backup for this position, or just hit the critical legal theorists.) If so, your "story" has no less validity than the "narrative" of any other witness to the same "factual" events. Therefore, you are not lying because you have an equal claim to the truth of your viewpoint, so believe. Only big or important lies are worth this much effort, though.

Re: Sebby's "charm and dress sense" rant - I have to say that I have come to agree with him to a frightening degree (on this point). Even if you are some academic tax lawyer, appearance is, if not everything, a hugely disproportional factor (though the most effective "image" to project may vary from area to area). I've had experiences similar to his - I am totally outclassed, outsmarted, outprepared, whatever, but everyone thinks I'm the genius who is holding the whole thing together because I look calm, put together, and because I have sufficient charm/socialization/whatever to connect with the decisionmakers and am otherwise confidence inspiring. This is probably more important in general litigation and general transactional work than specialist work (patent, tax, benefits, etc., where people are looking to you for your specific trekkie-geek area of knowledge not some vague idea of "competence"), but even in that specialist work there is an image that you need to project to inspire the appropriate sort of confidence in whatever abilities the audience thinks valuable.

Deal I was on not long ago - I was basically 4th chair (behind 2 partners here and the client's GC - I was probably on-par with the 2nd inhouse lawyer in terms of the pecking order on the deal). At least 2 of those people were considerably smarter, all were more experienced, and 3 of them had far better knowledge of the industry/deal type than me. But they were all what I would describe as "marginally socially unacclimated." The only one of them who wasn't a schlub in terms of either personality or appearance was a non-alpha male with a tendency to grovel. After the deal got done, though, who got the love letters from the client? Who was asked by the business guy to present a summary of the new project to the assembled client interdisciplinary project team? Who got the personal "thank you" letters from the board? That would be me, and it sure as hell wasn't based on the objective merit of my legal contributions (which were fine, but I definitely wasn't the brains behind the operation). The effect even extended to opposing counsel, whom I could charm into accepting our positions and distract from his (often justified) tirades with little more than my pretty ankles and a smile. I was, frankly, rather shocked by the whole thing - particularly how everyone "above" me on the pecking order accepted this as the natural order of things.

I think a basically competent lawyer with fairly developed social/interpersonal skills (which necessarily include adjusting outward appearance to appeal to others) can trounce a brilliant, prepared, but ill-socialized lawyer about 80-90% of the time. Sad and scary, but I think it's true. I think this is somewhat like the "good school on the resume" thing - it, illogically and unfairly but very truly, has way, way more effect on how people perceive your abilities than it should, even in the face of evidence of your actual abilities.

robustpuppy 01-08-2004 02:25 PM

HOW TO LIE WELL?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Also, don't explain yourself until someone asks. Walking in saying "Sorry, I'm late because...." Is like saying, "My canned excuse is as follows..." Wait for the asshole to ask you, then say "personal issue, won't happen again" politely and click your pen or adjust your glasses to give body language that says "I'm not discussing it and lets move on to the business at hand."
Very true. Whenever I am running late, I spend the whole time in transport thinking about what I am going to say about why I am late, and the story just becomes more lame and preposterous as time goes on. So I get it out of my system by telling it to myself. If asked, I just say "female problems" and am never pressed for details.

pony_trekker 01-08-2004 02:26 PM

My type of suit
 
Red shirt, no pants or underwear, something sticking out of my ass:

http://home.tiscali.se/mysis77/puhbilder/spooh23.gif


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