Papa was rolling stone, wherever he laid his hat...
 

So you fucked DS at 19?

who were you?
 

I was a female surgeon/herbalist in New Guinea in 925. My mother will be so proud that she finally has a doctor in the family.

Of course, she may have some hard-to-answer questions about why I couldn't get off my ass and get born again in the intervening 1050 years.

A(a thousand years of doing nothing! there really is a heaven after all!)G

Weekend stuff -- the Number
 

This explains why the whole country is going to hell in a handbasket.

who were you?
 

You were female in your last earthly incarnation.

You were born somewhere around the territory of modern New Guinea approximately in 1725.

Your profession was dancer, singer, actor.

Your brief psychological profile in that past life: You had mind of a scientist, always seeking new explanations. Environment often misunderstood him, but respected his knowledge.

Lesson, that your last past life brought to present: Your lesson -- to study, to practice and to use wisdom, enclosed in psychological sciences, and in ancient manuscripts. With strong faith and hard work you will reach your real destiny in present life.

Weekend stuff -- the Number
 

Stop hitting on me. I will give you no money for your crack habit.

TM

Weekend stuff -- the Number
 

You, I do for the sheer pleasure of bringing you pleasure. It's a natural high.

who were you?
 

I just looked in the hallway and out all of my windows to make sure you aren't here watching me.

Thrashers(actually, my one indulgence is a kick-ass high-powered convertible sports car but yes I am trying to pay off the house in the next few years and I also own an 8 year old car but that is for rainy days)Fan

who were you?
 

Oral sex is not sex for purposes of "the number."

Oral sex is sex if you are my SO and you let some skanky chick blow you at a club.

Weekend stuff -- the Number
 

No, your system isn't pointless. Its reckless. If folks start playing with the definition of sex, the already confusing dating pool will get even more confusing.

Imagine if guys were able to tell people they had sex with women based on hand jobs or blow jobs. That's a disastrous recipe for semantic abuse where none is needed because guys already lie about their sexual lives.

And how in the hell can two people hook up but only one have sex? You're turning logic and simple rules of the english language on their ear.

S(obviously, I'm doing this tongue in cheek, so don't take offense - I just find this a pretty amusing topic)D

who were you?
 

Nothing qualifies as sex unless you are completely sober, know the full name of your partner(s), have a good chance of ever seeing your partner(s) again in public AND someone other than your partner(s) in the act witnessed said act in its entirety. I am not a ho.

Edited to note that my son is the product of immaculate conception and I don't just mean that the kitchen floor was spotless at the time.

Weekend stuff -- the Number
 

To quote Kelly Bundy: "The mind wobbles."

who were you?
 

I can see the male part, but the "excellent self control" really throws me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not know how you feel about it, but you were male in your last earthly incarnation.
You were born somewhere around the territory of modern Egypt approximately in 700.
Your profession was builder of houses, temples, cathedrals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your brief psychological profile in that past life:
Ruthless character, carefully weighing his decisions in critical situations, with excellent self-control and strong will. Such people are generally liked, but not always loved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lesson, that your last past life brought to present:
Your lesson -- to combat violence and disharmony in our world, to understand its roots and origins. All global problems have similar origins.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

who were you?
 

This explains a lot about me and could be potentially outable.

I do not know how you feel about it, but you were female in your last earthly incarnation.
You were born somewhere around the territory of modern Central Russia approximately in 1800.
Your profession was dramatist, director, musician, bard.

Your brief psychological profile in that past life:
You were sane practical person, materialist with no spiritual consciousness. Your simple wisdom helped weaker and poor.

Lesson, that your last past life brought to present:
Your lesson -- to conquer jealousy and anger in yourself and then in those, who will select you as their guide. You should understand that these weaknesses are caused by fear and self-regret.

who were you?
 

Fuck

who were you?
 

Did I read this correctly? It's only sex if there are voyeurs who like to stick around for the long haul?

who were you?
 

This leads to the another question... If one gets a hand job in an massage parlor (known in slang as a "washie washie" or "happy ending"), is that cheating?

A friend swears it isn't - I say he's taking a holiday from logic because in my book, that's cheating.

S(why anyone gets a hummer from a stripper or a hand job from a massage girl amazes me - seems like soooo much risk for so little payoff)D

who were you?
 

Yep, that would be my personal rule. I have a virginal reputation to maintain you know.

who were you?
 

Huh -- that last requirement makes me, to my knowledge, a virgin. The waves of purity washing over me are quite refreshing.

who were you?
 

Would your friend feel the same way if his wife/girlfriend got her oil checked by a dude with long fingers at a massage parlor?

who were you?
 

Well, when the cops bust the place, and him, for prostitution, I'm guessing the "it wasn't sex" defense isn't going to fly. Unless you're defending him:

"Your honor, this man could not possibly get an STD from that woman. So it's not sex."

who were you?
 

Your rule makes my numbers relatively palatable.

who were you?
 

YOU are illogical. You have vehemently insisted that hand jobs at football games (?) aren't sex, but a hand job that you pay for is sex? Is it the money? What if you took the football handjobber out for dinner before the game?

And, she can't get pregnant and (in your delusional world) you can't get a disease from the stripper/massage girl, so where's the risk?

And, nothing personal, but I pretty much always find you offensive so what you said about being tongue in cheek (or whatever) was unnecessary.

who were you?
 

Excellent point. I will use that quote if ever that happens. And if it does happen I will remember to tell the arresting officer that I had to kill him because he had sex with some skanky chick at a club/bachelor party.

Weekend stuff -- the Number
 

Easily. It's called high school. All of the guys actually had sex. We were never really sure what the girls were doing for that 30 seconds, however.

"Hey, I always notice that bored look in their eyes."

who were you?
 

But you'd better be able to prove it was a skanky chick. Because if she was some sweet, virginal thing, then it's not sex. For either party.

who were you?
 

I'm pretty sure that a jury in the divorce proceedings (do they have juried divorces in other states?) wouldn't really buy that argument either.

who were you?
 

I can do this for everyone -- I'm undoubtedly sweet and now I'm a virgin thanks to Thrasher.

Gum in your drawers?
 

Honey, I don't care what your number is, I just don't want to hear stories like this.

Continuation of my saga from a long time ago (spring 2001)
 

My marriage in on a runaway train about to crash. W/out getting into all of the details. My wife and I had been talking about divorce for the past year, and I had been thinking about it for much longer. A few weeks back, she told me that she couldn't take this divorce talk anymore and that I should just tell her when and if I wanted a divorce, but she didn't want to hear about it anymore. She also told me that if I wasn't committed to her she was going to change the kids summer plans...., etc. I was to weak to be completely honest and I kind of let her on that I thought things were getting better. (my bad)

Meanwhile, I am miserable and becoming more and more convinced that I need to end this, and she is becoming more and more convinced that she wants another child. I have tried to gently move her away from the child issue in order to buy a little more time for us to figure out what's going on, but she has been putting a lot of pressure on. (before you comment on this -- I am not going to have another child with her so no need to tell me not to).

To make a long story short, she got her period a few days ago and decided that now was the time to have the kid. We were scheduled to visit my son in camp this past sunday and I was afraid of her anger and how it would affect our plans so I didn't argue with her. She called me this morning to tell me that she talked to an OB/GYN and that she was going to switch from Celexa to Prozac and going to go off her birth control tonight and that she wanted to go out to dinner to celebrate that we are going to have a new baby.

I can't continue living this lie and I have to tell her that I am miserable and I want a divorce.

Do I agree to go to dinner with her?
Do I tell her I have to work late and come home and talk to her?
Do I try to get into our couples therapist tomorrow for a session and try to stall her for a day?

What if she wants to leave tonight with my 4 year old? Do I try to stop her?

My other two are away in camp. I thought I could keep this together until they were back in school, but that isn't happening.

I spoke to my therapist and he said it sounds like I am sure. I don't feel sure. He also said that he thinks I tried hard. I wonder about that.

This is so hard, and I am so petrified.

She is going to be angry and say that I tricked her.
She is going to be crying and devestated and say that I ruined her life.

My kids are going to be upset that this happened while they were away.
They are going to feel betrayed.

I am so frightened, but so tired of this deception.

And then I question myself, maybe I should be trying. But then I tell myself I have tried for so long and can't see how this could ever get better.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Laminated Llist
 

After seeing the new Jason Taylor: Neutrogena for Men soap ad, he is most definitely on the list.

Even(wow . . . oh, to be that bar of soap)Odds

Gum in your drawers?
 

I didn't know the thought of bubble gum stuck in a cotton article of clothing was so repulsive.

Gum in your drawers?
 

It's not repulsive.

Why didn't she simply swallow it?

Continuation of my saga from a long time ago (spring 2001)
 

DT, sorry you are still in this situation.

Tell her you have to work late.

Schedule the appointment for tomorrow with the therapist so that the therapist can help her cope.

Continuation of my saga from a long time ago (spring 2001)
 

Order in a nice meal. Discuss. Get couples therapy.

Anyway, not that I have experience in these things, but it may be better that the kids are away at camp so you can get things somewhat worked out without having them in the middle. You'll have to explain it sometime to them; better after some reflection adn decisions on where things are going.

And isn't three kids enough to say you don't want another? Not that big families are bad, but it's hardly unreasonable to say "three's enough".

Continuation of my saga from a long time ago (spring 2001)
 

First of all, it's too early for her to safely get pregnant - her ob/gyn will tell her that. Celexa/birth control is going to be in her system for at least 30 days, probably longer.
Second, do not go out to dinner. Having a scene in a public place will make you cave in to her wishes.
Third, having a child in this circumstance is the absolute worst thing you can do to him/her. If you're not certain about the marriage, having a child will make you feel trapped. You will resent the child - the child will always sense this.
Fourth, if she accuses you of tricking her or lying to her - tell her the truth - that you thought you could do it, you really gave it a try but that the thought of having another child has forced you to make a decision you thought you had already made. If she storms out with the kid, then let her. You sound like you really need some space and time to think without all of the pressure. Maybe you could use a separation for this purpose. If you find that you miss her and want her back - then your decision is made. If you find that you feel that a gigantic weight has been lifted from you, then you should proceed with the divorce and hopefully a generous visitation schedule.

Best of luck - divorce is always hard - it should be hard especially when there are children. No one ever takes that decision lightly and neither should you. Take some time - don't rush into anything and never feel like you've been pushed into a decision you didn't want to make.

Continuation of my saga from a long time ago (spring 2001)
 

My thought would be to get into a therapy session. Saying you have to work late and putting it off is not going to help anything, and probably lead her to state that you are playing games/lying to her. You are having issues in confronting the situation. I certainly don't blame you. Therefore, I don't think that dinner with her will go well under any scenario. Thus, I think you need the help of a third party professional.

All I can do is wish you, your wife and your kids the best of luck.

aV

DT,

Please call the guy who was best man at your wedding, or some other close friend who knows you both, and talk this through. Don't listen to whatever advice is given on a chat board in between debates over counting sex partners.

If for some reason you find you no longer have anyone to call (and I know that thanks to this grind I have fewer friends for this kind of call than I used to), then take a breath, go home, have dinner with your wife and tell her you're going to quit your job and you can work on things for another few months, but another kid should not be in the works given this life change.

Otherwise, tell her you're coming home late and spend the evening talking to your friend.

G Qbed

(Editted to add: but don't lie to her about coming home late; let her know why if she asks and deal with it) -- more advice from some guy on a chat board

Continuation of my saga from a long time ago (spring 2001)
 

I know this is really awful for you. The best thing that you can probably do is be honest with her as quickly as possible. At home if possible so she doesn't get upset in public.

It will be hard. She will be mad. Maybe there is still room for discussion of how things will work out with her and maybe there is not. You will have a better feel for that once you start the discussion(s) with her.

It is really hard to hurt someone you care about, but it is also important to listen to yourself. It sounds like if you are talking to a therapist and really reflecting on things yourself, you probably have a feel in your heart for what is right.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Don't spend too much time blaming yourself. Best of luck.

n(been there,done that, thankfully no kids)cs

Continuation of my saga from a long time ago (spring 2001)
 

Note: I'm not a divorce attorney, I'm not a therapist, my advice is worth as much as you're paying for it.

First, I'm terribly sorry that you're going through this. It must be devastating.

You're going to have to tell her soon that it's over. The sooner, the better. The longer you wait, the more miserable you're going to be and the more she's going to try with pushing you towards another child.

Tonight is probably not a good idea to bring this up, if she's expecting a celebration of some sort tonight. Put her off with some excuse. Given what you've said about her temper in the past, it may be a good idea to have a third party present, so making a therapist appointment tomorrow is not necessarily a bad idea.

Plan on having a place to stay for tomorrow night if not longer. If you can, make sure that you can stay somewhere nearby, so you can see the kids as much as possible.

Your children probably know that tensions have been running high between you and your wife, and it may be best in the long run to get things started when most of them are not there.

Tomorrow morning, start looking for a good divorce attorney, if you do not already have one retained. If you're concerned about her taking your child when she is informed about the divorce, retain the attorney before you tell her about the divorce.

If there are any other family members that can help you with your four year old, you might want to let them know that you're going to need them to step up to the plate.

You're going to need your support system to be there for you. Find at least one person who will support you on EVERYTHING, and at least one person who is willing to play devils advocate on her behalf every now and then.

Again, I'm truly sorry about all of this, and I hope that it is not as bad as you fear.

who were you?
 

I am nothing if not consistent...

1. One need not have SEX with a person other than one's spouse to cheat. A hand job is NEVER AMONG RATIONAL NORMAL PEOPLE CONSIDERED SEX.

2. Dinner/money has nothing to do with it. Sex is defined by penetration in the vagina or anus unless you are a lesbian. A hand job cannot be considered penetration, unless you are a hand puppet.

3. That the massage girl cannot get pregnant has nothing to do with whether or not a handjob is sex and its also not relevant to this discussion. You have accidentally or purposely confused the "What is sex?" query with the the "What is cheating?" query. You obviously did this because its the sole means by which you can support your utterly unsupportable definitions. However, blurring my points to make me look inconsistent does not make you correct.

S(I take nothing personal - this is simply dispassionate logic)D