Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

If you’re going to refute my disagreement with an article in which I clearly refer to the centerpiece argument of the article, indicating I must have read it, citing the article to state that I’m wrong isn’t going to cause the conversation to progress in any meaningful manner. It’s just one of those things... like gravity.

ETA: If I didn’t disagree with that point in the article, what other one would I disagree with? I read no other resonant observations.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

That’s a pragmatic point I acknowledge. But if always followed, doesn’t that sort of realpolitik hold us back? Doesn’t it perpetuate bad policies?

Omar won’t lose her seat. And someone needs to call bullshit on the right’s faux outrage. I think in her case, stepping on a third rail is a surgical move that can enable rethinking some policies that just aren’t working, and are aruguably not humane. It can start a needed debate.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I have no doubt that she will stand her ground on the substance, and she should. But as GGG says, she's got to be diplomatic on the issue (as she was with the initial apology), and that means picking different worlds that aren't so easily contorted.

I wouldn't say that she needs the active support of local jewish progressives to keep her seat, but it certainly helps to have them on her team, and organizing and turnout in her district are absolutely critical to DFL statewide candidates. If she becomes someone who gets reelected just because of the makeup of her district, rather than someone who drives turnout, she will be much more vulnerable within the party.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

She can do that without suggesting that U.S. Israel policy is driven by money (it isn't really) or mentioning dual allegiances.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Greenwald raised that with her, I thought, and she just responded. If I raise the issue of Israel’s motives and you think they’re all about US aid, are you not allowed to state that?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It's not all about money, but the AIPAC expenditures sure don't hurt. And Adelson (probably the Israel supporter who has done the most to tie together the radical right in the US and Netanyahu and the anti-Peace crowd in Israel) does indeed expect a return on his investments.

I don't think it is in any way anti-semitic to suggest that donors give seeking to influence outcomes. I do think it is antisemitic to suggest that Jews control Hollywood, DC, or anywhere else with their money. AIPAC and Adelson are doing nothing different than other PACS and donors.

The use of the off-the-cuff musical quote to say "it's all about the benjamins" gets caught because this is an area where a bit of hyperbole bumps into a truckload of history. She's just got to be more careful and use more qualified statements, otherwise, the Fox News crowd is just lurking about waiting to jump her.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Sorry, did not mean to take what you said out of context. You said, "Wouldn't a movie from the doctor's perspective have to focus on how he despises the poorly spoken/educated? Would that have been better?" I did not respond to this because my understanding is that the Green Book is about a musician, so I did not understand what you were talking about, and I thought it was simpler to omit it. Is your point that there's no reason to try to make movies from a black perspective because everyone is flawed in some way? I don't want to put words in your mouth and you didn't say that, but if you did say that it would seem kinda silly.

Until the Academy decided to recognize it as the best movie of the year, which is when this conversation came back.

You could make it real for 1960 by telling the story with a, you know, black person as the main character.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Delong has all these reasons which he discusses for what he says, and if you aren't going to engage with why he says what he says, what's the point? Centrist Democrats have never had the votes to do things on their own. Previously, they tried to pass bipartisan legislation with moderate Republicans, at the expense of doing things that would please lefty Democrats, for reasons Delong describes. That model is failed. Notwithstanding their donors, there aren't enough centrist Democrats to do things on their own. Delong is saying that it's time to partner with and make concessions to the people to their left instead of their right.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Paul Waldman (cites omitted):

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

You can believe all that and also want Ilhan to be more careful about how she says things. Here is the perspective of the Minneapolis Jewish woman who directed a documentary about Omar:

https://twitter.com/NorahShapiro/sta...59789868122113

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I am really, really tired of charges of anti-Semitism being used cynically for political advantage. I also wish Omar wouldn't say things that smack of anti-Semitism, for multiple reasons.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Agree and agree.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Ahh, this explains it. You don't know what you're talking about, but still have very clear opinions.

The musician is an uber educated doctor (as in PhD) who is quite bothered by the white guy's loutish behavior. He often expresses the view that the white's behavior/speech etc. is unacceptable coming from his driver. The level of this displeasure is limited in the movie, but if we got more of it, it might be harder to like the doctor (again that is the musician). Also, a flaw in the movie (which cannot possibly have been the best movie, as it has flaws) is that the doctor
has some peculiar aspects that are not explained. Example: he sits on a throne when greeting visitors. Why? Who knows. He also seems to have no interaction with anyone other than his man servant. He might be a very weird person is he were more the focus.

Now, it is supposed to be "based upon a true story." One could have written the story to make him less unlikable and strange. But then, see, that "true story" stuff would go away.

The white guy is lead because the back story is his family. The doctor (again this is the musician) has no apparent family, so the equivalent scenes would have been him sitting on a throne ordering his butler around.

Again, making the movie from the doctor's (Ty- this is the musician) POV might result in a less desirable movie because of who the doctor seems to have been. I guess my question was how can people just reject the movie based on who is lead, when it seems to be possibly a clear choice for story purpose. But maybe you've answered the question? Ignorance combined with a lack of story telling ability?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I haven't seen Green Book. But a couple of things:

1. I'm sure this is about perspective. Of course Hollywood tells the story from the white person's perspective. Even though the black character is a world class pianist navigating The South in 1962, the story is told through the driver's eyes? Really? Also, Shirley's family had a huge problem with the movie's accuracy. The fucking movie had the white guy teaching the black guy how to eat fried chicken--completely made up.

2. A lot of people were comparing this year's Best Picture category to 1990 when fucking Driving Miss Daisy won best picture and Do the Right Thing wasn't even nominated. It was ridiculous that Driving Miss Daisy was even nominated. But it won against some very good movies. Anyway, this year, it was Green Book beating another Spike movie people really seemed to like*--BlacKkKlansman.

3. I think black people are fairly sick of white savior movies. I know white people love this shit, but it's enough already.

Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sdC6RxaY-Q

TM

*I didn't think much of it.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I don't understand this response. You asked why people are upset about it. Ty answered that it's told from the perspective of a talented black man's driver. Your response is that it's not possible to capture 1960s race relations without telling it from a white man's perspective?

TM