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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 521191)

I haven't seen Green Book. But a couple of things:

1. I'm sure this is about perspective. Of course Hollywood tells the story from the white person's perspective. Even though the black character is a world class pianist navigating The South in 1962, the story is told through the driver's eyes? Really? Also, Shirley's family had a huge problem with the movie's accuracy. The fucking movie had the white guy teaching the black guy how to eat fried chicken--completely made up.

2. A lot of people were comparing this year's Best Picture category to 1990 when fucking Driving Miss Daisy won best picture and Do the Right Thing wasn't even nominated. It was ridiculous that Driving Miss Daisy was even nominated. But it won against some very good movies. Anyway, this year, it was Green Book beating another Spike movie people really seemed to like*--BlacKkKlansman.

3. I think black people are fairly sick of white savior movies. I know white people love this shit, but it's enough already.

Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sdC6RxaY-Q

TM

*I didn't think much of it.

I was asking about the incorrect facts. The meme seemed to hint it was more than the chicken, which could explain some of the displeasure. The piano player seemed a very odd duck. But if the story bails on the truth anyway, I could see writing him less odd.

I'm in the middle of Blackkklansman which I wanted to like, but man is it plodding. I normally love spike but this one is tough. Not sure which should have won between the two. Probably something else?

I agree DTRT should have gotten something more. FWIW I think Mo Better Blues is his masterpiece.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 521189)

Agree and agree.

2 and 2

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521190)

The doctor (again this is the musician) has no apparent family, so the equivalent scenes would have been him sitting on a throne ordering his butler around. ...

Again, making the movie from the doctor's (Ty- this is the musician) POV might result in a less desirable movie because of who the doctor seems to have been.

I've haven't seen the movie, and thus not paid close attention to the discussion, but isn't the fundamental complaint that there may have been more to doctor/musician that the movie simply chose not to present? If so, yours does not seem like much of a response.

FWIW, I've heard the doctor/musician was quite a difficult character and apparently his family wasn't involved (and he likely wouldn't have wanted the movie to happen), so that seems like a complicating factor.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 521194)

2 and 2

Is she your congressperson? Flower? Rashida Tlaib is my daughter's, and came out of the public interest law firm my daughter works at. I wondered about some of what Tlaib has said and whether it might point to anti-Semitism. but the kid says she is not at all.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521196)

She is my congressperson and also Flower's (I'm fairly certain). I've not met her though.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 521195)

isn't the fundamental complaint that there may have been more to doctor/musician that the movie simply chose not to present?

He sits on a throne and there is no explanation of why. The lack of back story for him is a flaw. There should have been more, but the facts might have been unflattering.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 521197)

She is my congressperson and also Flower's (I'm fairly certain). I've not met her though.

Yes.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521190)

The musician is an uber educated doctor (as in PhD) who is quite bothered by the white guy's loutish behavior. He often expresses the view that the white's behavior/speech etc. is unacceptable coming from his driver. The level of this displeasure is limited in the movie, but if we got more of it, it might be harder to like the doctor (again that is the musician).

I am absolutely floored by this analysis.

If your exposure to the musician is based on watching a movie in which he plays a supporting character, you will necessarily have a limited view of who the fuck he is. Am I in backwards land? Your argument is that the personality traits they chose to show of the supporting character in order to make a movie about his driver are insufficient? I am honestly stumped at why you are taking the movie you saw and saying that they couldn't have made the movie from another perspective based on the evidence you saw in the movie in which they relegated the musician to a supporting role. What?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521190)

Also, a flaw in the movie (which cannot possibly have been the best movie, as it has flaws) is that the doctor
has some peculiar aspects that are not explained.

Again. What? They aren't explained because he's not the focus of the movie. Do you think they may have explained these things--given some backstory--if he were?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521190)

Example: he sits on a throne when greeting visitors. Why? Who knows. He also seems to have no interaction with anyone other than his man servant. He might be a very weird person is he were more the focus.

I suppose that could be. He also could have been an amazingly interesting person whose idiosyncrasies were based in plot points and character development. What???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521190)

Now, it is supposed to be "based upon a true story." One could have written the story to make him less unlikable and strange. But then, see, that "true story" stuff would go away.

This is the strangest conversation I've ever witnessed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521190)

The white guy is lead because the back story is his family.

No. The back story is there because the white guy is the lead. What the fuck?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521190)

The doctor (again this is the musician) has no apparent family, so the equivalent scenes would have been him sitting on a throne ordering his butler around.

That's quite the read considering his family has been vocal about how inaccurate the film is. Maybe he had a family later in life? Maybe he has no apparent family because the focus of the film is someone else and those characters were eliminated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521190)

Again, making the movie from the doctor's (Ty- this is the musician) POV might result in a less desirable movie because of who the doctor seems to have been. I guess my question was how can people just reject the movie based on who is lead, when it seems to be possibly a clear choice for story purpose. But maybe you've answered the question? Ignorance combined with a lack of story telling ability?

You have taken this movie and turned all the choices they have made based on who the lead is into evidence of why they didn't make the movie about someone else. You are not making any sense.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 521192)

I don't understand this response. You asked why people are upset about it. Ty answered that it's told from the perspective of a talented black man's driver. Your response is that it's not possible to capture 1960s race relations without telling it from a white man's perspective?

TM

And by the way, it isn't really from the perspective of one or the other. But the white guy is the lead as it is his family that fills in the time outside the two in the car. As depicted the piano player sits home by himself so how to change that up is not clear. It may be that that was not true, but if true, they couldn't have used his home life. SPOILER

And FWIW the piano player is the true hero in the "fuck this I'm standing up to the racist" scene. The white guy suggested eating the shit and just getting through it. Who is in more scenes is clear. Who is the hero not so clear.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 521200)

Yes. the complaint I read said the movie misrepresented facts. And I said depending on what they were, maybe the movie was totally jacked up. But based upon the facts in the movie I can see why it went the way it was.

His family seems to be siblings and nieces. SPOILER

He was gay, which led to some problems in the south. He might have had an active social life but as to the movie, it seems not. Maybe he didn't want the gay life being more to the forefront, maybe he kept that private and the movie respects that.

Again, all I'm saying is that without knowing more one can't say the movie should have switched stuff up.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521201)

Dude, I really think that your opinion and argument are completely colored by seeing the movie. The movie could have covered the musician's childhood to set up his weird character traits, his relationship with his parents, what happens to his career after the trip, a closer look at how he perceives the many white people he comes into contact with--including his driver--and how those views are reinforced or evolve. There are a million choices that could have been made in a completely different way.

It's like you watched a movie about War Machine and said, "I suppose it could have been about Iron Man, but he wasn't in the military and was really just a rich playboy. I mean, sure he was a brilliant genius who made the suit, but he's so vain and his interactions with James Rhodes just don't warrant making a movie about him."

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521202)

I think you and this conversation are very weird.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 521203)

All I've said, is that without knowing the answers to all your "maybes" you cannot say the movie should have been different. The time in the south fills most of the movie.

In the remaining time to set up who he was would be tough. Setting the white guy up as a conflicted racist is pretty simple and quick- my family is Italian borderline mafia and they cannot believe I'm driving a black guy. There certainly should have been something more about the piano player. I keep saying that, I kept thinking "wait, where does he get this trait?" But he seems very complicated and I'm not sure they could have fully fleshed that out without making a longer, very long movie.

Did you see the white text spoiler?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521205)

All I've said, is that without knowing the answers to all your "maybes" you cannot say the movie should have been different. The time in the south fills most of the movie.

That's because they chose the white guy to follow.

You can't present as evidence parts of a movie in which the black character is not the main character to make your argument that the story would fail with him in the lead, because you necessarily won't have the material that non-lead character would need to be the movie's lead.

TM

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 521214)

This is it for me. After this No mas.

All I said was that MAYBE the main character choice was driven by how odd/complex the piano player was, and how it would appear that switching it up would be perhaps challenging. I'm not trying to PROVE anything other than that.

I agree he seems a fascinating character, and I might actually go see a movie about him. I suspect that movie would be at an art house, not a multiplex.

I invited the people who say the movie SHOULD have been different to provide evidence of how you could back fill in his life in a short period of time. I ain't got the burden. If you say the movie SHOULD have been different you got the burden.