Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490849)

A quick google of Maher and Arab gets us these gems:

"I'm for racial profiling."

"Arabs only understand force."

"Talk to women who’ve ever dated an Arab man. The results are not good. They have a sense of entitlement."

I could go deeper on the google page, but why bother? He uses "Islamic" and "Arab" interchangeably, in both cases ignorantly, too, in both cases with great bigotry. If you want to laugh with the racist, well, enjoy. I'm sure he, like racists everywhere, is just misunderstood.

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 490851)

On your second point, I simply cannot agree. Obama is a black man who is President. He has absolutely no choice but to stay above the fray. The minute he shows any emotion that isn't calm, he's an angry black man--the very personification of every white person's personal fucking nightmare.

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 490853)

Yes. That's what I'm known for. Cuddling up with racists. Take a step back. Have a seat.

I don't agree with any of that shit that you posted. I know he's not for racial profiling generally (although maybe he is when it comes to Arabs--I suppose I can believe that). And I have listened to him very carefully, very often on this issue. And I have not heard those particular quotations and I haven't gotten the idea that that is his attitude towards Arabs. I know he likes being politically incorrect and provocative. But I wouldn't classify him as a racist and if I get a whiff of racism, I have no problem opening that up.

I think his problem is he absolutely hates religion and thinks it's the cause of all of the world's problems. And when he talks religion, he almost always talks in generalities. So when he focuses on Islam, when he should be focused on its extremist arm, he can't help himself. And he thinks all religious people are brainwashed, so it's an easy extension for him to make.

TM

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 490853)

Yes. That's what I'm known for. Cuddling up with racists. Take a step back. Have a seat.

I don't agree with any of that shit that you posted. I know he's not for racial profiling generally (although maybe he is when it comes to Arabs--I suppose I can believe that). And I have listened to him very carefully, very often on this issue. And I have not heard those particular quotations and I haven't gotten the idea that that is his attitude towards Arabs. I know he likes being politically incorrect and provocative. But I wouldn't classify him as a racist and if I get a whiff of racism, I have no problem opening that up.

I think his problem is he absolutely hates religion and thinks it's the cause of all of the world's problems. And when he talks religion, he almost always talks in generalities. So when he focuses on Islam, when he should be focused on its extremist arm, he can't help himself. And he thinks all religious people are brainwashed, so it's an easy extension for him to make.

TM

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 490858)

Why you always gotta be so angry, man?

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 490858)

Why you always gotta be so angry, man?

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 490859)

He is, allegedly, a giant asshole and a creep to work with, according to a number of female comics.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490864)

Actually, I think that point on Obama is right on target. (probably a whiff, right?)

Think of the Cambridge cop incident. Obama showed both anger and sympathy for Gates, and took huge and disproportionate shit for it. Settling it out with the beer was genius, was it was to counter the Angry Black Man image he suddenly got.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 490846)

I said it was great to cover people but fucked up that it was done in a way the seriously downgrades coverage for the middle class. That is not my ox.

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 490847)

I don't know what that means. When it's on Fox or from some right winger, they mean using executive orders to do things that Congress refuses to do.

What do you mean by it? What has he done that suggests he does not feel accountable to the American people?

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490863)

Hey, it's kind of interesting to see you defending the bigot. Has to be a bit uncomfortable, no?

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490863)

His generalities lump together "Arab" and "Islam". The racial profiling quote is verbatim and from an interview he did with Larry King, who immediately focused him on a driving-while-black scenario, to which he said, no, not blacks, arabs (that is not verbatim, he made a point of sayings "terrorists" first and then pointing out that means brown people. Brown people, not blacks.

Surely, you are hostile toward any racial profile, whatever shade of color its based on?

The "speaking in generalities" is, to me, what racism is all about. It is the very core of it. Take an incident, attribute it to a race or ethnicity in general, use it to fuel hate. His fundamental point is that Islam is different than other religions and inherently evil, and thus so are its adherents, and those people are arabs (a word he uses to cover Turks, Persians, etc.). So speaking in generalities isn't an excuse - it's the problem.

--- Angry White Man

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 490851)

Count me as one of the people who can't figure this issue out. To be honest, it may be because I love Obama and trust him to do the right thing (realizing of course that that is a naive stance to take and that it doesn't necessarily work when the next person takes office). I also think that (and I realize this argument has been used since the dawn of time) we live in a different world--one in which the line between the government's expertise when it comes to tech is really really close to some very evil people's expertise. And I wonder how much you or I would change our opinions and approaches if we had top-level access to just what is going on and how we can best battle it.

I'm also of the belief that from the day someone first used technology to write something down, governments have had ways to read it that you and I don't know much about. I think it has always been this way and every once in awhile, the curtain gets pulled back and we're all pissed off about it. But I don't think anyone really thinks the government hasn't been listening all along, no matter who the fucking President is. And that's not to say you shouldn't be pissed about it. I just think it's the way it is.

What does this mean? You'd rather he lost on principle than get what he got (which I will always remember as a huge win)?

I agree with you when it comes to Obama and the Democrats doing a poor job on selling healthcare reform. Truly awful, especially given the fact that every single person seemed to be in favor of what was in the bill when asked about the items individually. The Republicans did a great job of labeling it something else entirely, but given the fact that the citizens of this country are fucking maroons, it's much easier to scare when it comes to change than it is to sell.

On your second point, I simply cannot agree. Obama is a black man who is President. He has absolutely no choice but to stay above the fray. The minute he shows any emotion that isn't calm, he's an angry black man--the very personification of every white person's personal fucking nightmare. So he grins and grits his teeth and it comes off as aloof or condescending. But fuck that. I give the man all the credit in the world for not flipping over the desk in the Oval Office and saying, "Fuck this shit. You assholes deserve whatever you get."

Again, can't disagree more.

I'm with you there. Isn't it great how everyone knows every politician is owned by corporations and yet we can't change the fucking law in any way that makes an ounce of sense because THE CONSTITUTION! is sacred, even when our justices read it in the dumbest possible way?

We can't even pass a simple law limiting (not eliminating, limiting) assault weapons in this country. Instead, we watch children die so that some dumbass hick in Alabama can collect 40 semi-automatic rifles. This country is stupid.

Filling the vacuum? They created a market for fear of any kind of change and then hammered away at that while doing absolutely nothing and standing in the way of any progress at all. Then they pointed at Obama and said, "That condescending asshole won't work with us, thinks you're stupid, and hasn't accomplished anything!" It's a fucking joke. And it's not funny.

If Hillary wins, it's more of the same. Hell, if any Democrat wins, I think what we've been experiencing is the new Republican blueprint, because they'll just gerrymander themselves into office and threaten to blow shit up until they get their way. And it all comes back to the fact that our electorate is so fucking stupid that they can't remember why they're mad and who they're mad at from one day to the fucking next.

TM

Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 490871)

I think we are in agreement on a lot more than we disagree on. Except for one thing.

We are a government of laws, not men. If the people in power see shit that justifies them raining death out of the sky, then they better be prepared to let us know. Otherwise, they are no different than the terrorists they profess to be protecting us from. Either way, it's just someone who believes all he needs to kill is a personal belief that what he is doing is right and, in the long run, for our own protection, and if a few people (or a few thousand) need to die, well, it's all in the game.

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 490870)

No. Not really. I am very comfortable when it comes to discussing race and racism. And even though this is one of the few times I am defending someone accused of being a bigot, you haven't made me the slightest bit uncomfortable.

I feel like we are going in circles (although, I think your last paragraph is intentionally misleading when it comes to the generalities I was referring to (i.e., religion).

If Bill Maher thinks that all Arabs should be profiled, then it's one of the many things he's said that I think is stupid. I'm not going to track down and listen to the entire portion of the interview relating to this issue you've brought up, but again, I have listened to him many, many times on this very topic (including the most recent outburst when Assfleck* was on his show) and I have not heard him say anything racist. I have heard him paint Islam with a broad brush. And I've heard his arguments covering why he thinks that is okay. They're not very convincing, but I haven't heard anything that amounts to actual racism. And I'm not sure you've noticed, but I am fairly attuned to that shit.

TM

*Love his politics. Still can't stand him. This usually doesn't happen to me. I think it's his smarmy mouth and dead eyes that make me hate everything he says. And I realize those things aren't really in his control, but what can I say? I feel the way I feel.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490874)

Why intentionally misleading? He conflates Muslims and Arab people, very willfully. He hates both of them. Broadly. Nothing misleading in there.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490874)

I don't watch a lot of him. I mostly watch clips others post. I've seen a lot of clips of him talking about his hatred of Islam. It sounds like you haven't seen those, and I haven't seen all that much (I've seen some obviously) of whatever you find amusing.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490874)

As to being attuned, no doubt. But you keep going back to hatred of a religion and its adherents as being something less objectionable. I don't get it.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490874)

Is it somehow more ok to hate Muslims, if you think he doesn't conflate them with Arabs?

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 490874)

Or do we just need a label other than racism for that, akin more to the anti-semitism label?