Coltrane on Running
 

Yeah, those bicycles just move by themselves.

Both running and cycling take training. And the elite athletes in both sports suffer immense amounts in getting to the top. To me, what makes the Tour more impressive than a marathon, is that they do it day after day for three weeks. Marathoners run a big race one a month, at the most. Even if it were 10ks, it's not like they go day after day.

Coltrane on Running
 

Yeah, when I think athlete, my mind turns immediately to interior linemen and/or David Wells.

Coltrane on Running
 

Response to your edit:

Seriously?

I never said running was easy or that cycling was harder. I said they are both endurance sports. I don't think cycling, running, or ld swimming are easy. In fact, I think running is harder than you seem to think it is.

My objection is to your characterization of cycling as something other than an endurance sport.

Coltrane on Running
 

I've never said that a marathon was more impressive than the Tour. That would be ridiculous. The Tour IS more difficult. However, cycling is a much more fluid motion than running. Hence the ability to perform back to back (to back, etc.).

Coltrane on Running
 

But nobody wins with a Schwinn. The winners ride costly, high-tech marvel machines.

So, obviously, to the extent that the bikes differ, the quality of the bike itself is at least part of the equation. Which does, to some extent, detract from the claim that "it's all the rider - the bike is only a tool."

(Now is where I usually find out something like, everybody rides the exact same bike, blowing my point to shreds. If this is the case, let me down nicely.)

Coltrane on Running
 

See my retraction above. And I have an entry-level tri bike that I love (no races yet). It's a great sport, and it's probably better for your body than running. Neither is better than the other. Cycling is surely a difficult endurance sport and the Tour is probably the most difficult test. Although some triathletes and ultra-runners would disagree (I don't).

Hey Tour Freaks
 

Shoot. Yet another rule put out there by The Man* to keep us down.

Speaking of the TdF, I have read in a couple of places that OLN ratings for race coverage have increased mucho over last year. And it seems to have had a lot of coverage on ESPN and in the local paper, too.

All of which reinforces my long standing belief that the FB is kind of a leading indicator for what America as a whole will do or watch or drink or eat. Thongs, brazilians, mojitos, pisco sours, the White Stripes, reality TV, TdF, etc.

Faith Popcorn probably makes a gazillion dollars by telling advertisers what she reads about here.

*By "The Man" I don't mean dtb individually, who is not a man, but by the whole Establishment, or ruling class, or whatever we are calling them these days.

Coltrane on Running
 

Runners wear costly, high-tech running shoes (although cheaper than bikes). Swimmers wear costly, high-tech swim-garb.

What sport hasn't incorporated significant technological improvements in recent years that has improved performance for everyone participating relative to those of past years.

Hey Tour Freaks
 

The Iditarod? And not just on the dogs. From what I have learned these guys spend a lot of time not on the sled -- making trails, climbing, testing ice strngth, etc. And it is totally fucking cold (beyond cold to the temperatures that hurt and kill people) and you are alone (but with your dogs) and there is all sorts of wilderness shit that could happen to you. I have seen a few movies and Discover channel shows on the Iditarod and I would have to call it the most demanding sport in my book. That being said, I think those fuckers are crazy and I feel sorry for the dogs -- even though most people say that the dogs love it I just think they would prefer to be in front of a nice fire sniffing some whore-dog's brown-eye.

This is not to imply that I don't think Lance and all the others are great athletes.

Coltrane on Running
 

Think "continuum" of tools. (No, I don't mean the roster here.) On one end, there is the "costly, high-tech swim-garb". (?!? - I'm trying to imagine this, and failing.) On the other end, the different cars used in the Indy 500. Yeah, all just "tools", but to equate the impact of all on the outcome of the respective sports is simplistic. The bike in the TdF falls much closer to the Indy car (in terms of that impact) than does the slippery thong.

Hey Tour Freaks
 

It's these tender turns of phrase that makes me miss Atlanta.

Coltrane on Running
 

Some Kenyan runners train barefoot.

Mushy
 

My ex-boyfriend is a musher. He's in great shape. And yes, the dogs love it. It's what they are born to do.

Hey Tour Freaks
 

Can't blame the good ole boys for this one -- I brought my tender turns of phrase down here with me from New York. :D

edited to remind everyone that I heart Gwinky and now even more because she dated a musher which (even though I still kinda feel sorry for the dogs) is very much cool. Now if she could see fit to send me a case of Coffee Crisp I would never heart another. :kisscheek

Coltrane on Running
 

Equally, no one wins a marathon wearing Keds.

Coltrane on Running
 

Jacks.

http://www.axiomdi.com/portfolio/jacks.jpg

TM

Coltrane on Running
 

But an elite could compete barefoot.

Coltrane on Running
 

Ultimate Fighting. Actually, it seems to have become a wee bit pussified in recent years.

Food Packaging
 

Fuck you.

Coltrane on Running
 

Speedo Fastskin?

http://www.speedousa.com/images/Cata...705846_041.jpg

I'm guessing you don't see too many of these in any of those 10,000 lakes.

As for the bikes, the differences are not significant. Different riders need different sized bikes, with different adjustments for their bodies. But that's like sizing a shoe (think Nike and its customized shoes for Jordan, Michael Johnson, etc.). There are fairly specific regulations on what a bike can weigh (minimum weight) and the configuration of things like handlebars. And it's not like the bikes aren't basically available to anyone. The difference choices are due principally to sponsorship.

On the continuum, bikes are probably a lot closer to footwear than to Indy cars/NASCARs, where there are tons of mechanics tuning each car to get it to go faster before each race.

Coltrane is Right
 

To defend Coltrane here:

1) I never understand the Tour fawning that goes on over here - it's like the Bizarro World equivilant of white-trash NASCAR worship. Watching it is like watching the NY marathon - which is like watching paint dry.

2) Lance has been known as a prick as long as I can remember. The cancer somehow allows everyone to forget this.

3) Calling Lance the "best athlete" is the world is outright laughable. Let him compete in - let alone win - a few decathalons and we see if he is more than just an endurance athlete. And then let's see if he can hit a fastball.

not7y(F the Tour, F Lance)S

Coltrane on Running
 

Are you saying you're not familiar with the term sports?

They haven't improved parcheesi much either, or hopscotch for that matter, but, as some might say "objection, your honor, irrelevant"

Anyway, I would say the addition of ass, to form assjacks, is a significant improvement.

Hey Tour Freaks
 

I'm flattered.

The musher now apparently practices personal injury law in Whitehorse (he's a ambu-snowmobile-chaser). He still mushes though.

Thrasher, whenever I am prone to fits of longing for Canadian treats and my friends there can't get their act together to send me stuff, I go here. http://www.alwayscanadian.com/ They will send you Coffee Crisp or whatever you like.

Barry Melrose apparently uses them frequently. Not sure how much of an endorsement that is.

Coltrane on Running
 

Yes. I am unfamiliar with the term, "sports." Please explain it to me.

The post was a joke. It had nothing to do with anything, really. I just pictured some champion jacks player in my head using the latest in jacks technology to beat a longtime rival. Clearly it wasn't funny, but jesus, this has to be the lamest response on this board in quite awhile.

You should have limited your response to this, which is quite funny.

TM

Coltrane on Running
 

Oh Coltrane, ye of little faith. It's a skill sport too. If Lance weren't the best bike handler of his generation, he'd have gone out with Beloki on his spectacular crash and/or killed himself on the final TT like half the other riders.

But since you were gallant and offered all your other critics flowers, I won't yell at you.

Coltrane on Running
 

Which gets us back to the original point: This is a pretty stupid discussion.

Cycling is purely an endurance sport; does having the most endurance make you the "best athlete"? Is there any such thing, when so many sports call for so many different combinations of skill, speed, endurance, strength, etc.....?

Coltrane on Running
 

At least get the picture to work before throwing stones.

Hey Tour Freaks
 

You pop open the truck cages and they all run to lay down on the traces in their spots. If you get them clipped in and don't tie the sled while you're getting ready, you look up to see the back of the sled bouncing away. They truly do seem to enjoy it. (Maybe because the rest of their time is so boring, I suppose.)

Coltrane on Running
 

Obviously you haven't experienced Ultimate naked parcheesi, which is a significant improvement.

Whether techological improvements are a help or a hinderance in that game depends entirely on your personal point of view.

Coltrane on Running
 

I was wrong.

You're not wound tight at all.

(Edited to add: :kisscheek )

Coltrane on Running
 

When the game of jacks was first invented, back by the cavemen, each jack was hand carved individually out of heavy stone. An individual jack weighed well over 50 pounds. Now, with technological advances, jacks are made out of such lightweight materials as titanium, so they are much easier to grasp and lift. That doesn't necessarily mean that players have an advantage over each other, but it has meant that the playing field has been leveled somewhat for those trying to get on the competitive jacks tours.

Hey Tour Freaks
 

Like any dogs, they're genuinely happiest doing what we bred them to do for us and besides themselves with misery when we ask them to do anything else. Unfair genetic engineering, yes, but that's what we did. Thank God I came from a huge family, or our shepherd dogs would have gone insane without a huge passel of sheep to manipulate--instead, they just contented themselves moving us around.

Coltrane on Running
 

Didn't Abibe Bekila (sp?) win an Olympic marathon or two wearing no shoes at all?

Coltrane on Running
 

From a purely shallow fashion viewpoint, though, they've improved immeasurably. My mom's set were plain silver; a generation later, mine were cool brightly-colored anodized metal, which I later soldered into a very nifty bracelet.

Coltrane on Running
 

Blow me, you grizzled old turnip.


:bang:

Dogs and Bikes
 

I'll weigh in on these issues:

I'm unconvinced that the fact that dogs like to do something prevents it from being inhumane. Many dogs, including dogs bred for digfighting, are bred to be vicious. They enjoy tearing the throats out of other animals. That doesn't make it appropriate or good for them to do it, in my moral judgment.

Similarly, dogs bred for pulling sleds in freezing temperatures "want" to do just that, but that desire is wrapped up in some weird evolutionary/breeding relationship with the desire to please their masters. It's not uncommon for a dog to die of exposure during the race, and many dogs will also run themselves to death, too. This is a result of centuries of breeding for these traits. If you think that a bunch of wild dogs want to run until they die or pull sleds in the freezing cold until they die, you're nuts. They want to fuck each other, eat and sleep.

My dog likes to tear up the trash and get into stuff that could hurt him. When he was a puppy, he used to eat his own shit, too. That doesn't mean those things are good for him.

As for bicycling, I'm a little surprised that people actually think that Lance Armstrong is the "greatest living athlete" or whatever people have said. His sport (which is certainly is, a sport) is of endurance and strategy. Skill is involved, but you can't claim that it engenders the kind of skill that professional soccer, baseball or basketball does. Or golf. To me, atheticism also includes extremity/eye coordination and the ability to sprint, jump and change direction quickly. Sports like football, soccer, baseball, basketball and hockey all have these in spades. In cycling, all you do is push pedals and slightly move your hands to change direction. I'm not belitting it, but I think that if you put, say, Alex Rodriguez, Ronaldo, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong and a bunch of similarly elite athletes from a wide variety of sports in a contest where they did all the sports, a lot of guys would come out ahead of Lance Armstrong. Or mayhe they would not, and then I would believe that he is the greatest living athlete. But the fact that he has dominated a sport like cycling, even when it is more so than other elite athletes have dominated their sports over a similar period (impressive as it is, especially given the cancer thing) does not, in and of itself, cause him to be the greatest living athlete.

Edited to change "common" to "uncommon" and to say, "Damn, somebody beat me to the breeding thing."

Dogs and Bikes
 

If you think that I want to slog myself out of bed every morning and run down here to argue arcane and complicated legal issues with boring and pedantic lawyers just so I can bring enough frozen fish and dead squirrels back to the house to feed my pups, you're nuts. I just want to fuck women, eat, sleep, and lick my own crotch on good days.

So, if you think those damn dogs deserve a better life than do I, well, join PETA.

Coltrane on Running
 

No, you'll have to settle for this:

:e/o:

Dogs and Bikes
 

Hmm. I like to fuck, eat and sleep. Perhaps I should quit my job on the basis that it is inhumane for me to work. Or stop going to the gym because people have dropped dead from running.

I think you could be on to something here.

Coltrane on Running
 

I'm establishment? Damn.