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Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 521371)

I'm not sure if either of the commas you used were appropriate, but surely the use of both is not. When I post on the Detroit Board I do try and maintain a high standard of proper grammar and intellectual honesty given my high office there. We have all given up on you caring about the later, but as the admin, can you not at least try to respect the former?

There were three commas in my post and only one in the sentence you quoted, so I'm not sure if your use of the word "both" was appropriate, by which I mean you aren't making sense. Do try to keep up.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521370)

If someone breaks the law, and you prosecute, that's not (necessarily) selective prosecution or using prosecution as a political tool. We all have seen Mueller operate and understand that it's possibly to run a professional, unpoliticized investigation and prosecution. The fact that criminals will complain that they are being singled out does not mean that they are being singled out or are not criminals. Consider, for example, the prosecution of Dinesh D'Souza. He did what he did, and had no defense. So he got nailed. He complained that he was being singled out, but that was a load of crap, and the criminal justice system did its job. Floodgates were not opened.

Selective prosecution is the most vile of practices. Few abuses degrade public faith in our Property Protection System more.

I know numerous people who got caught doing what Martha Stewart did with much larger dollars. Penalties, warnings, fines, and disgorgement was all they received. I’ve known and known of several individuals with six and even seven figure tax evasions who negotiated repayments in lieu of prosecution. Common theme? None were famous. None political.

How many people cut deals in the Swiss bank scandal a few years back? How about the Panama Papers?

D’Souza was a high profile scalp. That’d almost never happen to a nobody.

Prosecutorial discretion is one of the last few utterly unchecked powers. And it’s one of those most in need of aggressive oversight.

For further reading, do a news search on Jeffrey Epstein.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521369)

This Administration is rife with grifters. Corruption only comes to light when someone else in the Administration exposes it while jockeying for position. I think it's a safe bet that sunshine will turn up quite a bit more. One example: the Florida woman who owns a chain of brothels and who has been selling access to Trump.

Also, you are missing the issue with 2. The Emoluments Clause is about whether Trump should be allowed to accept facially legit payments for things like hotel use. Even if that's OK, do you doubt that there are people in the government who are using their position to encourage third parties to make those payments?

It's not clear to me if 3. is legal, either. It depend on how it happened. The law imposes a bunch of process requirements. Not clear that they were met. Also, clearly there was something in Jared's dealings that made national security officials uncomfortable with him being in the loop. What do you think it was? High possibility for corruption there.

A hand job joint madam involved in sex trafficking is gross and horrible, but how does that implicate Trump? He and Kraft sound like the dupes there. Are you suggesting mere proximity is proof Trump conspired with her in the ring? (I wonder if Massagegate is related to Pizzagate?)

On 3, if Trump broke a rule, then it was illegal. But from what I’ve read, he did not. What we know now is high ranking intel recommended against givin Kushner clearance and Trump overruled them, which is legal. And if high ranking intel looked into Kushner, it sounds to me like necessary vetting was performed.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521372)

There were three commas in my post and only one in the sentence you quoted, so I'm not sure if your use of the word "both" was appropriate, by which I mean you aren't making sense. Do try to keep up.

sorry, old man eyes. Saw 3. as 3,

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521374)

Are you suggesting that the possibility of Trump paying for (who are we kidding, receiving) a hand job at a massage parlor is something he should get a pass for? If Kraft is inviting her to meet the President and every other Republican, knowing she runs a fucking prostitution ring, that isn't significant? If the women involved were trafficked, we should cut any of these Johns a break? Your ability to jump past everything to "This was just a photo-op," is mind-boggling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521374)

(I wonder if Massagegate is related to Pizzagate?)

You are comparing a made-up conspiracy theory to an actual sex trafficking ring. Sometimes I think you're better than this, but then I read bullshit like this and remember you're not.

TM

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521373)

F

Selective prosecution is the most vile of practices. Few abuses degrade public faith in our Property Protection System more.

I know numerous people who got caught doing what Martha Stewart did with much larger dollars. Penalties, warnings, fines, and disgorgement was all they received. I’ve known and known of several individuals with six and even seven figure tax evasions who negotiated repayments in lieu of prosecution. Common theme? None were famous. None political.

How many people cut deals in the Swiss bank scandal a few years back? How about the Panama Papers?

D’Souza was a high profile scalp. That’d almost never happen to a nobody.

Prosecutorial discretion is one of the last few utterly unchecked powers. And it’s one of those most in need of aggressive oversight.

For further reading, do a news search on Jeffrey Epstein.

I would suggest that the sentencing guidelines are a part of this problem, because they prevent judges from counteracting the prosecution's discretion.

None of what you are saying is a reason to decline to bring a case against Trump.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 521376)

Wtf? Nobody’s suggesting he got a hand job from anyone in her ring. You made that up. This madam duped Kraft into getting her near Trump, and she then used that access to Trump (if any was granted other than that photo) to dupe people to pay her for her professed “access” to Trump.

Kraft is a pathetic old fool. Trump is a clown who can’t control access to the rooms in which he’s sitting at his own hotel.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521377)

On 1, that is one of many fixes needed.

On 2, agreed with a caveat. Adder makes an important point. I’d add that we should not charge political opponents just because we can. It should only cover extreme circumstances.

Trump’s payoff for Stormy doesn’t warrant prosecution. If he made decisions because Putin told him to, that qualifies.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521374)

Josh Marshall:

Quote:

The original Miami Herald story explained that the one time owner of the massage parlor where Patriots owner and Trump pal Robert Kraft got busted was a Mar-a-Lago member who had gotten a great deal of access to Trump and his family through a mix of her membership at the club and major donations to Trump and the GOP. Yang, who is a naturalized US citizen, still owns a mini-empire of day spas in South Florida, most of which are reputedly in the sex business. But she had already sold the particular one Kraft got busted at. She claims never to have broken any laws.

Over the weekend we learned two new things that might have been predicted by the outlines of the original story.

In 2017 Yang and her husband Zubin Gong founded GY US Investments LLC, which openly sells access to President Trump and the White House for a price. It’s supposedly in the broader business of setting up Chinese entrepreneurs with contacts and market openings in the US. But the direct access to Trump is the real sell. And when I say openly I mean openly: the now offline website offers clients “the opportunity to interact with the president” and more. There’s a good deal of evidence she was able to come through with that kind of access for various clients. This follow up information came from Mother Jones.

Then over the weekend a number of Twitter accounts began posting links Yang has to a number of organizations run through or by the “United Front” department of the Chinese Communist party. She’s on the boards of at least two such organizations. These are local chapters of these groups, based in the US. They are at least outwardly public advocacy type organizations. But they are also the kinds of connections one would look to for possible connections with the Chinese government, Chinese intelligence, etc. Call it public diplomacy-plus. China conducts extensive espionage operations inside the United States.

Next, a point that is already out there but worth considering. Yang at a minimum is selling access to the President through Mar-a-Lago. Trump has empowered club members to operate as independent franchisees of his larger pay-to-play operation. But while selling access, she also appears to be in the prostitution trade in South Florida. The opportunities for enrichment, favor-giving and blackmail are basically endless.

Finally, it’s important to note that all of these revelations were sparked by a selfie Yang took with Trump at a Super Bowl watch party. Absent that we wouldn’t know about any of this. The Mar-a-Lago membership list is private. So there’s no way to cross reference it with political giving or favors or people who are literally using their membership to sell access to the President. Nor is this Trump’s only estate he’s turbocharged through regular presidential visits. So there’s every reason to think there’s a lot more of this.

It's less that this is going to be a huge scandal and more the strong suspicion that there is a lot more of this going on than is showing up in the press.

Quote:

On 3, if Trump broke a rule, then it was illegal. But from what I’ve read, he did not. What we know now is high ranking intel recommended against givin Kushner clearance and Trump overruled them, which is legal. And if high ranking intel looked into Kushner, it sounds to me like necessary vetting was performed.

That's the most recent story. But since many of those involved were lying until quite recently about what happened, you can be suspicious about whether this story will hold.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 521376)

I wasn't even thinking about the sex crimes. I was thinking that it is highly improbable that she has been selling access to Trump without his somehow getting his cut, which would be corrupt.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521378)

This madam duped Kraft

Is that the new term for it?

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 521380)

Josh Marshall:

It's less that this is going to be a huge scandal and more the strong suspicion that there is a lot more of this going on than is showing up in the press.

That's the most recent story. But since many of those involved were lying until quite recently about what happened, you can be suspicious about whether this story will hold.

Here's the thing, when you are a predator or a criminal, and hang out with other predators and criminals, there are going to be times when you are just hanging out with them and other times when you're hanging out with them to do your predator and criminal stuff.

Law enforcement has the difficult job of figuring out which is which, but there will be both dead ends and surprises when someone really gets to figuring out the whole Trump crime empire. It's possible that sometimes Trump is just playing golf with those mob bosses, sex traffickers, mercenaries, and grifters he hangs out with.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521378)

Trump is a clown who can’t control access to the rooms in which he’s sitting at his own hotel.

Trump's been hanging with criminal elements since his early days in NY. These are usually people he like to have around him.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521373)

D’Souza was a high profile scalp. That’d almost never happen to a nobody.

I know of a half dozen cases brought against people making contributions through straws from back when I worked in politics, and I was only in it for a few years. It is an area that is actively policed.

D'Souza was caught red handed and lied about it, which dug his hole deeper and gave the prosecution good reason not to give him a pass. That said, he didn't get prison time and he got a fairly modest fine. I know at least one person who lost their house over a similar crime (this person used their employees as straws as well as a couple dummy names to make contributions in support of Paul Tsongas when he ran for President - the Tsongas campaign was horrified and cooperated, and he felt they should have instead been thanking him).

If you work on a political campaign and someone wants to see the candidate to give him a handful of contributions and then has a dozen money orders for $1000 each, it's time to call the feds.

Re: Downward Departures for Gout

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 521378)

I most definitely did not make that up. It is being investigated. And what you wrote is surely more plausible. But if you think it's a stretch that the guy who raw dogs porn stars attended this woman's happy ending spa before he became President and received a hand job, you are on an island by yourself.

TM