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-   -   I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=879)

sebastian_dangerfield 10-31-2016 03:41 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503227)
I see people criticizing Reid, but no one criticizing Chaffetz. Everyone is so inured to the way the GOP works the refs that it's just part of the landscape at this point.
I was just dealing with the asshole in front of me. You'll get no defense of Chaffetz from me. He's a fucking idiot. His tap dancing on Trump demonstrates his level of stupidity.

"I'm not endorsing him. I can't look my daughter in the eye after supporting him... But I'm still voting for him."

I get it, Chaffy. Really, I do. But guess what? You're playing to an idiot audience. All they hear is "flip flopper." Ya know what might've been a tad bit smarter? Shutting your mouth.

At least Reid can plead senility. Chaffetz is just a stone cold moron.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-31-2016 03:44 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 503232)
I realize that you're just engaging in an analysis of what you think happened based on his actions. I've seen this all over the place. I've also seen discussions about McCain trying to save his 2008 campaign by choosing Palin or trying to hold on to his Senate seat by endorsing Trump or feeding his red meat base the promise of rejecting any Supreme Court nominee Hillary puts forth.

I think we've gotten to a place where we are analyzing politics like it's a sport. Strategy is what people are focused on and that's understandable on a board like this, of course. The problem is, no one is talking about the most basic function of any of these assholes is to serve this country not to survive politically so you can retain (or grab more) power. Every decision I listed above, including Comey's is blatantly irresponsible and it's done so that whoever is making it benefits. That. is. insane.

TM
Those considerations are miles back down the river. We've been in Captain Kurtz's territory for a long time now.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-31-2016 03:45 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503229)
Screw that. Reid ought to go full out on their ass - the "they" being both Comey and the Republicans in the House. They play the game this way, it is entirely appropriate to respond in kind. Reid, as a lame duck, is the best available guy on our side to do the dirty work.

Hillary should stay above it. But if I were Reid, at the end of my career, I'd pull out the biggest bat in my closet and start swinging. I want him to make the topic of discussion here Comey's idiocy and Comey's conflict and Comey's desire to cover his ass at the expense of the Presidency. And the message to the Rs ought to be that we are perfectly willing to investigate and air their shenanigans, even though we know that mud-wrestling with pigs is dangerous business, we're going to point out to everyone that they're pigs in the mud.

Go Harry!
I hear you. But when you're winning, why bother? Brush Comey off your shoulder, like Barrack and Hillary are doing.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-31-2016 03:48 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503226)
He gets to wear the big boy pants because he has to make hard decisions, not duck them.
He made a hard decision. In fact, he made two. I don't like this one because it's too easy to be seen as trying to have it both ways given his other one (and because it;s too late), but you can't say this guy didn't make some hard decisions. Imagine the inside heat he took on this one.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-31-2016 03:53 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
For Sebby:

Quote:
I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing. Does it exalt dunderheads, cowards, trimmers, frauds, cads? Then the pain of seeing them go up is balanced and obliterated by the joy of seeing them come down. Is it inordinately wasteful, extravagant, dishonest? Then so is every other form of government: all alike are enemies to laborious and virtuous men. Is rascality at the very heart of it? Well, we have borne that rascality since 1776, and continue to survive. In the long run, it may turn out that rascality is necessary to human government, and even to civilization itself – that civilization, at bottom, is nothing but a colossal swindle. I do not know: I report only that when the suckers are running well the spectacle is infinitely exhilarating. But I am, it may be, a somewhat malicious man: my sympathies, when it comes to suckers, tend to be coy. What I can’t make out is how any man can believe in democracy who feels for and with them, and is pained when they are debauched and made a show of.
Mencken, of course.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-31-2016 03:54 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503236)
He made a hard decision. In fact, he made two. I don't like this one because it's too easy to be seen as trying to have it both ways given his other one (and because it;s too late), but you can't say this guy didn't make some hard decisions. Imagine the inside heat he took on this one.
There was nothing hard about this decision. He protected himself, at the expense of others.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-31-2016 03:55 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503225)
(2) If FBI brass and DOJ say there's no case, and one or more FBI agents keeps pursuing it, they are "rogue."

(3) People criticize Hillary's penchant for secrecy, but the way the FBI has handled this matter makes her predilections seem pretty reasonable.
I've no doubt there's institutional groupthink at work here. You know how folks get when they collaborate on a deal for a long enough. The thing's closing, no matter how fucked up and counter to its original intent it's become along the way.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-31-2016 04:01 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 503230)
Pressure like this makes the case for why he needs to resign. They'll say it anyway, but without it, the right will be all over the White House saying that asking for his resignation is just political payback.

Mind you Obama might not really care, but still.
Good point. Hadn't considered that.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-31-2016 04:04 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503228)
I was just talking about this in the office. Sometimes it's both a fact and a travesty. Of course he should not look at it solely from the viewpoint of his hide; that itself ought to frighten people. I wouldn't say "must" at all - but I would say they often do look at it this way.

The point I was making in our discussion here was that in my experience government is filled with good people who put their country first - in the second, third, and fourth positions down in an agency. Then there is the person on top, the political appointee. And there people's motives are much more mixed.
Govt is 70% people concerned with little more than CYA'ing themselves through life. Another 20% are the people who do all the work. The last 10% monetize it.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-31-2016 04:05 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503235)
I hear you. But when you're winning, why bother? Brush Comey off your shoulder, like Barrack and Hillary are doing.
There must be consequences.

Yes, the election itself may be consequences for some. But the only way the Republicans are ever going to stop being obstructionists is if they get punished for it.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-31-2016 04:13 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 503232)
I realize that you're just engaging in an analysis of what you think happened based on his actions. I've seen this all over the place. I've also seen discussions about McCain trying to save his 2008 campaign by choosing Palin or trying to hold on to his Senate seat by endorsing Trump or feeding his red meat base the promise of rejecting any Supreme Court nominee Hillary puts forth.

I think we've gotten to a place where we are analyzing politics like it's a sport. Strategy is what people are focused on and that's understandable on a board like this, of course. The problem is, no one is talking about the most basic function of any of these assholes is to serve this country not to survive politically so you can retain (or grab more) power. Every decision I listed above, including Comey's is blatantly irresponsible and it's done so that whoever is making it benefits. That. is. insane.

TM
Yes, and I am more addicted to the sport than most - I'd even say at the minute tactical level, not even at the strategic level.

When Comey does something that may make sense tactically to a Republican operative but undermines fundamental principles on which our law enforcement has operated for a century to preserve clean elections - yes, it makes to set aside the tactics and strategy and hit the roof on principle. But that is hard to do 8 days out (which is part of why Comey shouldn't have done this!).

And talk about lack of principles.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-31-2016 04:40 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Harry Reid looking better.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-31-2016 05:50 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503242)
There must be consequences.

Yes, the election itself may be consequences for some. But the only way the Republicans are ever going to stop being obstructionists is if they get punished for it.
I have a serious problem with the casual use of "obstructionist." If I represent people who do not want what you demand, and it's a zero sum game, and my only device to stop you is obstruction, why is this course of action invalid? I'm instead supposed to let you win?

ThurgreedMarshall 10-31-2016 06:43 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503250)
I have a serious problem with the casual use of "obstructionist." If I represent people who do not want what you demand, and it's a zero sum game, and my only device to stop you is obstruction, why is this course of action invalid? I'm instead supposed to let you win?
Just stop it already. If you state, unequivocally, before you've seen bill fucking 1 that you aren't going to accept anything that comes from the other side and, indeed, you run from your own bills and ideas, it's beyond obstruction. Stop trying to make these assholes seem reasonable.

TM

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-31-2016 06:59 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503250)
I have a serious problem with the casual use of "obstructionist." If I represent people who do not want what you demand, and it's a zero sum game, and my only device to stop you is obstruction, why is this course of action invalid? I'm instead supposed to let you win?
Come on, Man.

This is one of those things where you know it when you see it and what has been going on is just fucking obscene. This is not a close call.

To add to what TM says, if you say you're going to tie a new administration up in investigations before deciding what to investigate, or that you're not going to consider a nominee for a position because you want to cause pain to the nominator, or that your job is just to ensure that the other guy doesn't get reelected, you are an obstructionist.

Pretty Little Flower 10-31-2016 09:38 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503250)
I have a serious problem with the casual use of "obstructionist." If I represent people who do not want what you demand, and it's a zero sum game, and my only device to stop you is obstruction, why is this course of action invalid? I'm instead supposed to let you win?
I know you like to be provocative, but your unceasing efforts to defend the reprehensible is as convincing as your horns-in-rock argument, but slightly more disturbing.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 11-01-2016 03:09 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 503253)
I know you like to be provocative, but your unceasing efforts to defend the reprehensible is as convincing as your horns-in-rock argument, but slightly more disturbing.
We all have our little reprehensibles we like to try to nobly defend.

For example, I like to split infinitives.

Pretty Little Flower 11-01-2016 03:45 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503254)
We all have our little reprehensibles we like to try to nobly defend.

For example, I like to split infinitives.
You've never been afraid to boldly go where few grammarians have gone before.

Bible-inspired funk? Yup, it's Cane & Able, with some spaced out cosmic funk, transitioning into an easy bongo-driven groove. "Girl You Move Me." Sit back and relax for this one. Grab a beverage or whatever heals you. The Daily Dose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XgdL3JSoRE

Replaced_Texan 11-01-2016 05:01 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
The White Stripes "got back together" to tell the Trump campaign to knock it off with "Seventh Nation Army" and to release this tee shirt. May be of interest to some:

https://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/ar...ump%20Main.jpg

BackInTheNewYorkGroove 11-01-2016 06:28 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 503256)
The White Stripes "got back together" to tell the Trump campaign to knock it off with "Seventh Nation Army" and to release this tee shirt. May be of interest to some:

https://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/ar...ump%20Main.jpg
I saw an attractive hipster-ish girl wearing one of these in the Strand over the weekend and thought of posting about it.

Not Bob 11-01-2016 06:45 PM
I'm not dumb but I can't understand.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503250)
I have a serious problem with the casual use of "obstructionist." If I represent people who do not want what you demand, and it's a zero sum game, and my only device to stop you is obstruction, why is this course of action invalid? I'm instead supposed to let you win?
Because filling a vacancy on the Supreme Court is not a zero sum game, and announcing in advance that you will not approve any nomination made by Hillary if she wins is obstructionism squared. Do you think Breyer or Kagan or Kennedy or Souter were not selected in part to be acceptable to the opposition? Shoot, the last "fuck you" nominee I can think of was Rehnquist by Nixon.

And most legislation is not a zero sum game either, but you know that. Stop being willfully obtuse - many in the GOP are obstructionist solely to avoid "giving" a "victory" to Obama, and will do the same if HRC wins. The debt ceiling, remember?

Pretty Little Flower 11-02-2016 04:59 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 503256)
The White Stripes "got back together" to tell the Trump campaign to knock it off with "Seventh Nation Army" and to release this tee shirt. May be of interest to some:

https://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/ar...ump%20Main.jpg
Just fantastic. Speaking of the White Stripes, Jack White is going to be on the new Tribe Called Quest album. WHAT??!? Yup, Tribe was back in the studio after all these years recording when Phife Dawg died. The album will also have guest appearances by Andre 3000, Busta Rhymes and . . . Elton John. In celebration, here is a mid-70s groove (with plenty of strings to keep it sweet) that was sampled for the main riff in Tribe's Award Tour. The Daily Dose is "Spirit Man" by Weldon Irvine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCYLRcdz1S8

And here is Tribe's Award Tour. Such a great mellow tune. Always gets the head nodding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P800UWoE9xs

Tyrone Slothrop 11-02-2016 08:06 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
I talked to some Trump voters.

Hank Chinaski 11-02-2016 09:23 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503270)
Maybe you don't get this (and maybe I'm whiffing cuz I stopped reading), but when he says "Bleaksville, Kentucky (or maybe it’s in Ohio or West Virginia, I can’t remember)" he kinda justifies a lot of the disillusion.

Hank Chinaski 11-02-2016 09:38 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
www.realclearpolitics.com has electoral votes, no toss ups, within 10. do not listen to anyone saying this is over. anyone you know who has strong feelings against both, but stronger against 1, and still might not vote, or might vote 3rd party, tell them this is not the election to play that shit.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-02-2016 10:13 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 503271)
Maybe you don't get this (and maybe I'm whiffing cuz I stopped reading), but when he says "Bleaksville, Kentucky (or maybe it’s in Ohio or West Virginia, I can’t remember)" he kinda justifies a lot of the disillusion.
Not to strike at your everyman Michigan thing, but he's mocking the media, not the Trump voters.

Icky Thump 11-02-2016 10:16 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 503272)
www.realclearpolitics.com has electoral votes, no toss ups, within 10. do not listen to anyone saying this is over. anyone you know who has strong feelings against both, but stronger against 1, and still might not vote, or might vote 3rd party, tell them this is not the election to play that shit.
Tell them to back a winner like Harambe or Deez Nutz

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...-nutz-in-texas

sebastian_dangerfield 11-02-2016 10:18 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 503272)
www.realclearpolitics.com has electoral votes, no toss ups, within 10. do not listen to anyone saying this is over. anyone you know who has strong feelings against both, but stronger against 1, and still might not vote, or might vote 3rd party, tell them this is not the election to play that shit.
Playing it.

I don't give a shit who gets elected. I'll game things to avoid adverse economic impacts as necessary either way (as will all of you election-induced-recession proof folks here).

Whoever wins, I'll get wild amusement out of clowns who'll whine in the aftermath.

If I'd conviction of any sort, I'd stay home. But I'll probably feel the need to vote the down ballots. And perhaps even just flip a coin on the big one. Just because...

No trolling. I'm just tired of being told how much I need to care by irritating people.

Hank Chinaski 11-02-2016 10:25 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503273)
Not to strike at your everyman Michigan thing, but he's mocking the media, not the Trump voters.
i read that far and stopped. You may be right.

Hank Chinaski 11-02-2016 10:38 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503275)
Playing it.

I don't give a shit who gets elected. I'll game things to avoid adverse economic impacts as necessary either way (as will all of you election-induced-recession proof folks here).

Whoever wins, I'll get wild amusement out of clowns who'll whine in the aftermath.

If I'd conviction of any sort, I'd stay home. But I'll probably feel the need to vote the down ballots. And perhaps even just flip a coin on the big one. Just because...

No trolling. I'm just tired of being told how much I need to care by irritating people.
Hmmm, well if your vote matters, that is Pa is in play, Trump wins, so indulge yourself!

But do you know how you or I get a bit in our cups and post mean shit? Trump does the same. You and I, we should not have the nuclear codes, vile truth, but still. think. about. it.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-02-2016 10:53 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503275)
I don't give a shit who gets elected.
Is there anything you do give a shit about?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 11-03-2016 08:22 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 503277)
Hmmm, well if your vote matters, that is Pa is in play, Trump wins, so indulge yourself!

But do you know how you or I get a bit in our cups and post mean shit? Trump does the same. You and I, we should not have the nuclear codes, vile truth, but still. think. about. it.
Hank, I would so give you or Sebby the nuclear codes before Trump.

Adder 11-03-2016 10:23 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503275)
I don't give a shit who gets elected.
Or you could try for once in your life to have a little empathy.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 11-03-2016 10:33 AM
Re: It takes a village
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503275)
Playing it.

I don't give a shit who gets elected. I'll game things to avoid adverse economic impacts as necessary either way (as will all of you election-induced-recession proof folks here).

Whoever wins, I'll get wild amusement out of clowns who'll whine in the aftermath.

If I'd conviction of any sort, I'd stay home. But I'll probably feel the need to vote the down ballots. And perhaps even just flip a coin on the big one. Just because...

No trolling. I'm just tired of being told how much I need to care by irritating people.

Are you OK? Just worried about you. I don't like to see it when people start to withdraw from society like this.

Remember, dude, you ARE somebody.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-03-2016 11:20 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 503280)
Or you could try for once in your life to have a little empathy.
You realize Trump voters say exactly the same thing to me. This is exactly the sort of self-righteous bullshit that makes me want to stay home... And watch the whole lot of you tribal, narrow thinkers on the right and left fight it all out, to the death, with spiked baseball bats.

Don't preach morals to me. No one on either side gets to do that.

It's also dull. Moralizing people are the dullest fucks you'll ever meet. Don't be one of those people.

Adder 11-03-2016 11:25 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503282)
You realize Trump voters say exactly the same thing to me. This is exactly the sort of self-righteous bullshit that makes me want to stay home... And watch the whole lot of you tribal, narrow thinkers on the right and left fight it all out, to the death, with spiked baseball bats.

Don't preach morals to me. No one on either side gets to do that.

It's also dull. Moralizing people are the dullest fucks you'll ever meet. Don't be one of those people.
What the fuck are you on about? You say you don't care who wins because you will personally be okay.

But you also know that others will not be personally okay. It's implicit in "as will all of you election-induced-recession proof folks here." Why don't you care about those who are not "election-induced-recession proof?"

ETA: And beyond that, pretending that there's something morally controversial about empowering Trump's bigoted supporters takes the cake.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-03-2016 11:27 AM
Re: It takes a village
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503281)
Are you OK? Just worried about you. I don't like to see it when people start to withdraw from society like this.

Remember, dude, you ARE somebody.
I'm fine. I just want it to be over.

Nothing's going to change, and no one's addresssing any of the serious issues. Have you heard either of these people discuss the impact of automation on the labor force? Justice reform? Demilitarization of the police? Domestic spying on US citizens?

This is a sham election in what's increasingly becoming a banana republic for most people. The only problem is, the political landscape is dominated by cynical elites and uneducated fools.

Clowns to the left, jokers to the right...

sebastian_dangerfield 11-03-2016 11:28 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 503283)
What the fuck are you on about? You say you don't care who wins because you will personally be okay.

But you also know that others will not be personally okay. It's implicit in "as will all of you election-induced-recession proof folks here." Why don't you care about those who are not "election-induced-recession proof?"

ETA: And beyond that, pretending that there's something morally controversial about empowering Trump's bigoted supporters takes the cake.
You realize every single one of those arguments is also being made by Trumpkins.

Pretty Little Flower 11-03-2016 12:06 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503285)
You realize every single one of those arguments is also being made by Trumpkins.
Don't try to reason with him. Just tell him to fuck off.

ThurgreedMarshall 11-03-2016 12:11 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503278)
Is there anything you do give a shit about?
I think it's quite clear that he cares very deeply about himself.

TM


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