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-   -   I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=879)

Tyrone Slothrop 11-03-2016 07:54 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503331)
By the way, on the war stuff, I'm about 3/4 serious.

Generally, no one wants to bomb their own property. If US investors own a bunch of factories in Pakistan, there will be a powerful group of people opposing war with Pakistan.
Read Chris Hedges' book, War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning. It's uneven, but there's some good stuff about why your powerful investors sometimes win out and sometimes don't. There is not a lot of stuff that I read that has such resonance and staying power.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 08:22 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503333)
Read Chris Hedges' book, War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning. It's uneven, but there's some good stuff about why your powerful investors sometimes win out and sometimes don't. There is not a lot of stuff that I read that has such resonance and staying power.
2. And Empire of Delusion is also fantastic.

You realize I'm almost 1:1 with him on everything but solutions. Yet I have to listen to nerf minds here tell me I'm full of shit.

Listen to Hedges' podcast, Days of Revolt. It's depressing, but in world awash in lies, it's a nice blast of cold water in the face.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 08:28 AM
Paul Proteus Shrugged
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503329)
If it's this simple, we were all better off in a pre-industrial economy. Of course, we weren't, because the same technological progress that eliminates jobs also confers great benefits by making things cheaper. There are winners and losers, always, and there is no simple proposition that will tell you whether the winners will outnumber the losers, or how the politics of it will play out.

If we had a more representative, better functioning legislature, you would expect to see the gains from technological progress shared more broadly, and less discontent. (Not just a US point.)
Do yourself a favor and read Rise of the Robots by Martin Ford. Skip the first 100 pages (you know that story already) and read the projections of the future.

Pretty Little Flower 11-04-2016 10:34 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503334)
You realize I'm almost 1:1 with him on everything but solutions. Yet I have to listen to nerf minds here tell me I'm full of shit.
Not. Impressed. Did you ever read "A Brief History of Time"? Well, I'm 1:1 with Hawking on everything but wormholes, but the tedious addled-minded holier-than-thou simpletons on this board write me off as some sort of two-bit, funk-peddling jackass. There is no justice, man. No justice, no peace. You ever check out that Savoy Motel?

Adder 11-04-2016 10:43 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Robot panic is the inverse, but equally delusional, cousin of autonomous car utopia.

Both will cause significant changes over time, but not as quickly or as drastically as the breathless are predicting.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-04-2016 11:07 AM
Re: Paul Proteus Shrugged
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503335)
Do yourself a favor and read Rise of the Robots by Martin Ford. Skip the first 100 pages (you know that story already) and read the projections of the future.
Look, I'm not a utopian saying that robots are going to make everything rosy for everyone.

Hank Chinaski 11-04-2016 11:19 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 503336)
Not. Impressed. Did you ever read "A Brief History of Time"? Well, I'm 1:1 with Hawking on everything but wormholes, but the tedious addled-minded holier-than-thou simpletons on this board write me off as some sort of two-bit, funk-peddling jackass. There is no justice, man. No justice, no peace. You ever check out that Savoy Motel?
Hawking? the simple fuck doesn't understand string theory. At. All. I read stuff from people who get the truth, man. Plus, she's got way nicer titties!

http://www.superstringtheory.com/people/gifs/evas.jpg

Eva Silverstein and two of her favorite formulas

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 11-04-2016 11:21 AM
Re: Paul Proteus Shrugged
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503338)
Look, I'm not a utopian saying that robots are going to make everything rosy for everyone.
As long as the orgasmatrons don't come with an "excessive" setting.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-04-2016 11:40 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Why the Clinton email scandal ("scandal") is bullshit.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 11:48 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 503337)
Robot panic is the inverse, but equally delusional, cousin of autonomous car utopia.

Both will cause significant changes over time, but not as quickly or as drastically as the breathless are predicting.
Extrapolate Moore's Law.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 11:50 AM
Re: Paul Proteus Shrugged
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503338)
Look, I'm not a utopian saying that robots are going to make everything rosy for everyone.
I'm not saying it'll be necessarily dire. The book is scary, but mostly neutral on it.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 11:51 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503341)
It's not the emails. Even the FBI admits that. It's what the emails disclose about the Foundation.

It's always been about the Foundation. The emails are just the shoehorn into the bigger investigation. Come on... you knew that.

ETA: And fuck Vox. That site has 0.0000000 credibility. It's like a high brow Huffington Post, or a left wing Townhall.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 11-04-2016 11:51 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503341)
Do you think Sebby cares?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 11-04-2016 11:52 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503344)
It's not the emails. Even the FBI admits that. It's what the emails disclose about the Foundation.

It's always been about the Foundation. The emails are just the shoehorn into the bigger investigation. Come on... you knew that.
One of the best run charities around.

But you don't really care, do you?

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 11:53 AM
Re: Paul Proteus Shrugged
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503340)
As long as the orgasmatrons don't come with an "excessive" setting.
Speak for yourself.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 11:54 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503346)
One of the best run charities around.

But you don't really care, do you?
No one said it isn't. They've said it was used to operate a pay to play scheme. A thing can effect noble and nefarious ends at once.

But you don't really care, do you?

Adder 11-04-2016 11:57 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503342)
Extrapolate Moore's Law.
Yeah, eventually robots will be manufacturing nearly everything. It's just that the "eventually" is on a longer timeline than those preaching doom assert, the "nearly" is probably not as complete and the offsetting adjustments a whole lot harder to predict/visualize.

Also, much of this has already happened and predictions of robot labor doom are probably older than I am.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 11:58 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503345)
Do you think Sebby cares?
I agree. It is bullshit. It's always been bullshit. So has been Benghazi. These are just discovery devices. The DOJ shut down the agents who wanted to open a broad investigation of the Foundation back in February. Those agents are now doing what agents often do -- cultivating alternative sources. Weiner has turned out to be a very useful device to reopen the broader investigation.

You think WSJ and Fox are running a story stating there are likely indictments coming related to the Foundation just for fun? Granted, Fox has bias. But the Journal is a trade rag for an industry that supports Hillary.

Adder 11-04-2016 11:59 AM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503344)
It's not the emails.
Okay, well, how about tell everyone who complains about the emails.

Quote:
Even the FBI admits that.
Which FBI?

Quote:
It's always been about the Foundation.
:rolleyes:

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 12:01 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Okay, well, how about tell everyone who complains about the emails.
I just did.

Adder 11-04-2016 12:02 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503350)
You think WSJ and Fox are running a story stating there are likely indictments coming related to the Foundation just for fun?
I think they are running it because people with political agendas are "leaking" it to them for political advantage.

I also think it's almost certainly bullshit, but we'll have to wait and see.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 11-04-2016 12:54 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503348)
No one said it isn't. They've said it was used to operate a pay to play scheme. A thing can effect noble and nefarious ends at once.

But you don't really care, do you?
Well, as soon as I see evidence I'd be happy to.

So far, the best evidence anyone has shown me tells me that John Podesta knows his Risotto.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 11-04-2016 12:57 PM
Re: Paul Proteus Shrugged
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503347)
Speak for yourself.
I guess we're all going to go one way or another.....

Tyrone Slothrop 11-04-2016 01:25 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503344)
It's not the emails. Even the FBI admits that. It's what the emails disclose about the Foundation.

It's always been about the Foundation. The emails are just the shoehorn into the bigger investigation. Come on... you knew that.
The Foundation is such a nothingburger of a scandal. It has been looked at exhaustively, and no one has ever been able to find a situation where someone who "bought influence" through the Foundation -- which is to say, donated money that was mostly used to pay for AIDS treatment in the Third World -- got a quo for their quid. Many people have tried to write those stories, and they have found nothing. But because they don't want to admit that they wasted their time, or say nothing, and because the Clintons are the Clintons, the stories always end with the notion that there was the potential for the appearance of impropriety. No one ever writes the story that says, you know, for a long time the media has been looking at this smoke and saying, it could be a fire, but really there's no fire.

And, BTW, none of the coverage ever points out that the Foundation raised a ton of money and did good work with it. Most people don't know that.

Quote:
ETA: And fuck Vox. That site has 0.0000000 credibility. It's like a high brow Huffington Post, or a left wing Townhall.
Not sure why you say this. Everything I've ever read on Vox has been solid, if sometimes earnest and dull. I don't really read Huffington Post, or Townhall, so not really sure I get your comparison.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-04-2016 01:28 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503348)
No one said it isn't. They've said it was used to operate a pay to play scheme. A thing can effect noble and nefarious ends at once.
It takes a lot of work to establish a well-functioning non-profit, and while your argument is logical correct, the fact that the people running the Clinton Foundation have done such a good job doing what they are ostensibly doing tends to suggest that they haven't been doing it for the ulterior motive of running a pay-to-play scheme.

An example consistent with this is the Trump Foundation, which obviously has been run for purposes other than doing good work, and hasn't managed to do good work.

Adder 11-04-2016 01:39 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503356)
It has been looked at exhaustively, and no one has ever been able to find a situation where someone who "bought influence" through the Foundation
Come on now, Ty, there's no way she would have met with Mohammad Yunus without the massive quid pro quo!

Pretty Little Flower 11-04-2016 03:17 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503348)
No one said it isn't. They've said it was used to operate a pay to play scheme. A thing can effect noble and nefarious ends at once.

But you don't really care, do you?
This all reminds me of the Funkadelic tune, Philmore.

"Everybody's got a problem, but you don't even give a damn (you don't care, and you don't care)."

Way too empathetic for my taste but it is a hell of a banger of a funk tune. The Daily Dose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw6Yi7pCOcU

notcasesensitive 11-04-2016 04:09 PM
Cross-post From the Other FB
 
Sorry to be redundant (to those of you I'm friends with on facebook), but here's where I am today:

Other than reposting articles about sexism inherent in our treatment of Hillary Clinton, past and present (news flash: there's a lot of it), I've been hesitant to say too much about our election here, but this last week has filled me with dread and last night I finally pinpointed why this is so personal to me...

I am in the first generation of women who were raised to believe that with hard work and determination, we could grow up to be or do anything that we wanted. That my gender would not and should not hold me back. Thanks in large part to the feminist movement of the 1960's and early 1970's (and prior feminists who paved the way for that movement), my worldview has always been that women can and should do anything they set their minds to.

That cornerstone of my belief system will be rocked to its core if this eminently qualified woman who has fought her entire life to make things better for so many in this country and abroad (and frankly her record on that cannot and should not be disputed) is defeated on Tuesday by Donald Trump, an unqualified, narcissistic, unwilling-to-learn, hate-filled, bullying, reality tv con artist.

I don't think I'll really believe that story of my childhood any longer if Donald Trump is the president-elect of our country on Wednesday morning. And that is a heartbreaking realization.

So yes, this election is personal to me. And it's a big deal.

ThurgreedMarshall 11-04-2016 04:20 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503350)
You think WSJ and Fox are running a story stating there are likely indictments coming related to the Foundation just for fun?
Just wanted to see this bit of brilliance again in light of recent events.

TM

Pretty Little Flower 11-04-2016 04:31 PM
Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notcasesensitive (Post 503360)
Sorry to be redundant (to those of you I'm friends with on facebook), but here's where I am today:

Other than reposting articles about sexism inherent in our treatment of Hillary Clinton, past and present (news flash: there's a lot of it), I've been hesitant to say too much about our election here, but this last week has filled me with dread and last night I finally pinpointed why this is so personal to me...

I am in the first generation of women who were raised to believe that with hard work and determination, we could grow up to be or do anything that we wanted. That my gender would not and should not hold me back. Thanks in large part to the feminist movement of the 1960's and early 1970's (and prior feminists who paved the way for that movement), my worldview has always been that women can and should do anything they set their minds to.

That cornerstone of my belief system will be rocked to its core if this eminently qualified woman who has fought her entire life to make things better for so many in this country and abroad (and frankly her record on that cannot and should not be disputed) is defeated on Tuesday by Donald Trump, an unqualified, narcissistic, unwilling-to-learn, hate-filled, bullying, reality tv con artist.

I don't think I'll really believe that story of my childhood any longer if Donald Trump is the president-elect of our country on Wednesday morning. And that is a heartbreaking realization.

So yes, this election is personal to me. And it's a big deal.
Sebastian does not give a shit about your self-esteem issues.

notcasesensitive 11-04-2016 04:35 PM
Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 503362)
Sebastian does not give a shit about your self-esteem issues.
As long as he's insulated from the possibility of any negative effects of a Trump presidency, I guess it's all good.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 05:20 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 503361)
Just wanted to see this bit of brilliance again in light of recent events.

TM
That was quite ridiculous. Someone should lose a job for that.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 05:22 PM
Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 503362)
Sebastian does not give a shit about your self-esteem issues.
Let me get this straight: Not voting for Trump is inadequate. I must vote for Hillary?

From what planet are you people?

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 05:28 PM
Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notcasesensitive (Post 503360)
Sorry to be redundant (to those of you I'm friends with on facebook), but here's where I am today:

Other than reposting articles about sexism inherent in our treatment of Hillary Clinton, past and present (news flash: there's a lot of it), I've been hesitant to say too much about our election here, but this last week has filled me with dread and last night I finally pinpointed why this is so personal to me...

I am in the first generation of women who were raised to believe that with hard work and determination, we could grow up to be or do anything that we wanted. That my gender would not and should not hold me back. Thanks in large part to the feminist movement of the 1960's and early 1970's (and prior feminists who paved the way for that movement), my worldview has always been that women can and should do anything they set their minds to.

That cornerstone of my belief system will be rocked to its core if this eminently qualified woman who has fought her entire life to make things better for so many in this country and abroad (and frankly her record on that cannot and should not be disputed) is defeated on Tuesday by Donald Trump, an unqualified, narcissistic, unwilling-to-learn, hate-filled, bullying, reality tv con artist.

I don't think I'll really believe that story of my childhood any longer if Donald Trump is the president-elect of our country on Wednesday morning. And that is a heartbreaking realization.

So yes, this election is personal to me. And it's a big deal.
So now unless I vote for Hillary I'm aiding and abetting sexism and making women feel bad?

Did I have a similar obligation in 2008 because Obama was the first Black President?

This is heartfelt, but not a logical basis for me or anyone else to make a decision.

I dislike them both and she's going to win my state anyway. I'm not the enemy.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 05:32 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503356)
The Foundation is such a nothingburger of a scandal. It has been looked at exhaustively, and no one has ever been able to find a situation where someone who "bought influence" through the Foundation -- which is to say, donated money that was mostly used to pay for AIDS treatment in the Third World -- got a quo for their quid. Many people have tried to write those stories, and they have found nothing. But because they don't want to admit that they wasted their time, or say nothing, and because the Clintons are the Clintons, the stories always end with the notion that there was the potential for the appearance of impropriety. No one ever writes the story that says, you know, for a long time the media has been looking at this smoke and saying, it could be a fire, but really there's no fire.

And, BTW, none of the coverage ever points out that the Foundation raised a ton of money and did good work with it. Most people don't know that.



Not sure why you say this. Everything I've ever read on Vox has been solid, if sometimes earnest and dull. I don't really read Huffington Post, or Townhall, so not really sure I get your comparison.
Neither you nor I can litigate the facts regarding the Foundation. There is new information. Maybe something; maybe nothing. That nothing stuck in the past does not prove the absence of something emerging.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 05:35 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503357)
It takes a lot of work to establish a well-functioning non-profit, and while your argument is logical correct, the fact that the people running the Clinton Foundation have done such a good job doing what they are ostensibly doing tends to suggest that they haven't been doing it for the ulterior motive of running a pay-to-play scheme.

An example consistent with this is the Trump Foundation, which obviously has been run for purposes other than doing good work, and hasn't managed to do good work.
It's worse than that. If he wins, he'll also be dragged thru endless investigations. And possibly impeached for God knows what.

Give me a can't win hand and demand I play it? Sorry. Pass.

notcasesensitive 11-04-2016 05:36 PM
Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503366)
So now unless I vote for Hillary I'm aiding and abetting sexism and making women feel bad?

Did I have a similar obligation in 2008 because Obama was the first Black President?

This is heartfelt, but not a logical basis for me or anyone else to make a decision.

I dislike them both and she's going to win my state anyway. I'm not the enemy.
I never said you were. My feelings about this election have nothing to do with you (sorry if my responding to Flower's post for some reason made you think I posted this here because of you -- my reasons for posting are really pretty clear in the post).

But for me and countless other women in this country, this is no joke.

Hank Chinaski 11-04-2016 05:42 PM
Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 503361)
Just wanted to see this bit of brilliance again in light of recent events.

TM
what recent events?

sebastian_dangerfield 11-04-2016 05:43 PM
Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by notcasesensitive (Post 503369)
I never said you were. My feelings about this election have nothing to do with you (sorry if my responding to Flower's post for some reason made you think I posted this here because of you -- my reasons for posting are really pretty clear in the post).

But for me and countless other women in this country, this is no joke.
Understood. Totally reasonable.

If it's any consolation, most of the Trumpkins seem focused more on her last name than her sex. We're ready for a woman president. She just brought a ton of baggage that made her candidacy problematic.

And she's going to win anyway. The media's just trying to create a horse race. Under the math, he's fucked.

Pretty Little Flower 11-04-2016 05:46 PM
Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503365)
Let me get this straight: Not voting for Trump is inadequate. I must vote for Hillary?

From what planet are you people?
I swear I could write an absurdist play about the way you respond to things that nobody ever said. I would explain my joke to you and explain how I never said whom you should vote for, but I can see that you're understandably quite sensitive from all the nerf brains attacking you here, so I'm just gonna let it go. Also, I think it's fine to end sentences with prepositions these days in order to avoid awkward constructions, but I realize this opinion is not uncontroversial.


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