Re: What a blockhead!
 

After you've been disabled for two years, they automatically enroll you.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

It really does sound like you are wanting true socialistic healthcare, fully provided and paid for by the government, rather than the insurance approach that was used. I don't blame you, it has its advantages, and we both know you have socialistic tendencies.

Insurance companies started developing a lot of very high deductible policies in response to HSAs. You may remember some of your posts talking about how great those policies were (and, yes, you said when coupled with other benefits that you provided but that other people offering HSAs didn't); what's happened recently is that insurance companies have really begun pushing these policies outside of HSAs because they have proven profitable for them and they tend to be attractive to people shopping solely based on price and not on offered benefits.

There should be some lower deductible policies in there as options, but if they don't cost more they are probably going to have restrictions on providers (so there may need to be a trip to Stamford) or other bells and whistles may be missing. Shopping for these things has gotten incredibly complex because there are enormously more options than there used to be (that is as a result of ACA). But, yeah, the low cost policies are still going to have limited benefits in one way or another. The good thing is, they'll all give her respectable coverage if she gets seriously sick.

Re: This is amazing.
 

Please tell us what this consisted of. All details will be welcomed.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Depends on the definition of poor and whether the state has opted into Medicaid or not. Most poor kids usually qualify for CHIP, even in states like Texas without the Medicaid opt in. Hell Medicaid pays for almost all of those several hundred thousand dollar NICU stays, even for not-poor families.

And it depends on how the insurance policies are set up. My state purchased ERISA plan administered through Blue Cross has a $350 deductible for individuals but it's only applicable on charges where coinsurance is required. In most routine instances, like the ear ache or UTI or even a trip to the ER, it's a set, predictable copayment that I have to pay rather than coinsurance.

Re: No, no, baby - this ain't living.
 

Good grief.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Get the FOH.

TM

Re: I'm looking for all Atheists everywhere to denounce shooting people over parking
 

So Chapel Hill - is it a terrorist attack, hate crime, another plain-vanilla shooting in America, or just a a parking dispute? Or does no one care?

Re: I'm looking for all Atheists everywhere to denounce shooting people over parking
 

Don't think we know yet.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

again, I am only using my child's experience to ask how we helped a truly poor family, which I thought was the point.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

You do see some of my answers in there, don't you?

I'm beginning to worry that we may need to set you up with a good neurologist. Have you been in for any recent cognitive testing?

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that your daughter was lazy or stupid in my reply to you. There are a lot of moving parts in the various policies available on the exchange. I actually found the explanations given by the carriers on each of their websites easier to use than the explanations/summaries on the exchange site for comparison of things like copays and network versus non network charges.

But I'm just the third most popular dude in a four dude rock band, so what do I know.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to sidd's preceeding post. I appreciate her advice, and the point you make is a great one. If you provide the average poor person the ability to surf a gazillion optrions you are not doing them a favor. It's the same result as to when you get to law school and learn all these consumer protection laws that are intended to help the poor and are mostly of benefit to the well off, just due to lack of knowledge by the poor.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I do not think this is true. Some people may have it worse now. Maybe many. But this is a huge undertaking and there will be growing pains until the new system is settled. Given the benefits of healthcare access and the prohibition against excluding people, the drawbacks (which, compared to the healthcare system we had before) are worth dealing with.

The solution isn't to throw it out. The solution is to improve it as we see what the problems are.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Legit question: Is it "worse come to worse" or "worse comes to worst?" I've always said it the way you say it. But within the last 10 years have heard it the second way more and more frequently and it seems to make sense. Anyone?

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Sidd said, "it's easier to find the extra money and bitch about it than it is to figure out how to deal with the system." I'm sure that's true, and it's no reflection on your daughter. One way to make money in the insurance business is to be smarter about which risks you take on. That's hard. Another is to make it difficult for insureds to make claims. That's easier. So every insurer has a big incentive to make it difficult for people with meritorious claims to get their money. Or for doctors to get paid, for that matter. That's the business they're in. This was true before HCR, and it will be true after HCR, and it will be true if we ever get to single-payer, except that then the insurer will be the government, which will have a somewhat different set of incentives -- though not always better, as those familiar with the VA can attest.

Re: I'm looking for all Atheists everywhere to denounce shooting people over parking
 

So far, sounds like at least three of the above.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

It seems to me, the only answer that will satisfy you is, "Hank, you were right about Obamacare. It should never have passed." Because you seem to be ignoring lots of thoughtful reponses.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I don't think that is what I'm looking for, not on this point. I truly am wondering if a poor family would be hit with the deductible, because then I do not see how they were helped. if they had no money to pay for an office visit before ACA, how do they now? and some of the answers about knowing the correct back doors for getting stuff covered would likely be beyond the knowledge of that same presumedly (or often) poorly educated parent(s), don't you think?

I thought we were providing coverage to the poor, but I'm just shocked that we haven't really (unless I'm missing something?).

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I've always gone with the latter.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

The biggest programs within ACA oriented toward helping the poor within Obamacare were expansion of Medicaid and CHiP and provision of subsidized insurance policies.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I think you're missing something, but I simply do not have the energy to wade through the choices one would have (whether poor or not) if one were seeking insurance under Obamacare. I find it highly unlikely that the only options for the poor require a $3,000 deductible. Why don't you sit down with your daughter and help her go through all her options and then report back on all the problems?

To be fair, it's probably a complicated system to navigate one's way through. Hell, the 2 or 3 options my wife and I are presented with through our employers each year are no picnic to figure out either and I've been wading through this shit for years. That said, when it comes to these decisions, poor people tend to figure out what the best option is--especially for important shit like this. (Not all of course.) But if you want to figure out just how invested poor people become and how they educate themselves, go to a community board meeting in the poorest neighborhood in any city when an announcement has been made that a certain percentage of students in that neighborhood are eligible to attend an excellent school in another. Best believe the complex application process has been mastered by those parents and the questions being asked are sophisticated.

It may be that your daughter either (i) signed up for whatever was easiest because she knows you'll always be there to help or (ii) chose a high deductible plan because she wants to spend as little as possible each month and she knows you'll cover her if she needs to hit that $3,000 deductible all at once. Hell, there could be any number of reasons.

I just don't understand why you cherry pick what you determine to be negative responses from all the posts answering your questions. It's like you enjoy being wounded or feeling like you're going up against everyone.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I know there is a decent percentage of poor people that know their options and wait in line and fight to get the best. I'm not worried about them. Remember agreeing that it sucks when motivated parents get their kids out of poor schools but it destroys things for those who are left? The ones who are not the people who get out, the 50% of kids in Detroit who drop out of HS, we are not talking about motivated/educated people making wise decisions. I guess I would have thought it would have been more idiot proof.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

The answer is it depends on what plan they have and what assistance they qualify for. As RT has also explained, it depends also on what type of treatment they are seeking and in what context.

We've helped them if nothing else because the answer is no longer "they have to pay out of pocket or they don't get it."

ETA: Oh, yeah, and we've also helped them in that if they are paying out of pocket, they are doing so at plan prices instead of uninsured prices.

And as everyone has pointed out to you, we've helped them if they have more catastrophic needs.

We've also helped your daughter by delaying her need to figure this out for herself until now.

Is your daughter poorly educated?

One thing to keep in mind is that the "poor" may be as likely to be young or elderly or recently divorced as to be poorly educated or otherwise permanent members of the underclass.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

HeLpful.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

And, of course, (ii) makes a ton of sense for someone in Hank's daughter's position. She's young and presumably healthy and has the oldest form of insurance of them all already.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I think that group will figure out which option is the best from word of mouth as Obamacare becomes more established and the group who actually does the "leg" work grows.

There will always be a group who will do nothing.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

not if you look at paid tuition $$$. what she might have is the lack of fear, due to her safety net. without that she might better sort out the options.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I can think of any number of businesses -- AOL, Earthlink, Rosetta Stone, Ancestry.com, every fitness club, etc. -- that make their money by getting people to sign up for regular payments for something that they aren't going to use. That's the free market in action -- taking money from people who may not be idiots, but also aren't spending the time and attention to save themselves some money.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

A hardy woman would tough that out.

Pussy.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

https://frankiely.files.wordpress.co...aurelhardy.jpg

That's as close as I could get.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

"Ollie... Ollie, it burns something terrible!"

"Well, you'll just have to clench tighter now, won't you?"

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Re the complexity issue, the administration tried to encourage state exchanges to use "navigators" to help people and businesses decide what plan was the best fit.

Like everything else in Obamacare, this works reasonably well in states that set up their own exchanges (like New York), and less well in states that did not (like, say, Florida). The governor and attorney general did more than a little scaremongering on "medical privacy" and the department of health (run by an appointee of the governor) refused to allow navigators to work at county health offices (which is where a lot of poor floridians go for basic health care like immunizations and school physicals). The GOP legislature also passed a law preventing the state department of insurance from regulating health insurance premiums on new plans (like, say, Obamacare plans). Then when rates are high, well, who's to blame? The Kenyan Socialist, of course.

In fact, one could argue that Florida's actions are a deliberate attempt to sabatoge Obamacare. Refusing the help to explain policy options is just one part of it. If enough people are unhappy with their policy (because they didn't understand their options) or how much it costs, support for the ACA will fade and the GOP can undo it.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I didn't say your daughter was either lazy or dumb. I said that, for her, "It's easier to find the extra money and bitch about it than it is to figure out how to deal with the system."

Many people in many situations, myself often included, find it easier to pay some more money than to do some extra work or deal with bureaucracy or whatever. Your daughter has the luxury of reaching out to you. There is nothing wrong with that. The only wrong thing is to make that choice, then bitch about it like you actually had no choice.

The last sentence indicates the one thing about my post that actually is unfair towards your daughter --- suggesting that she is the one bitching about it. That's you, not her. For that, I (sincerely) apologize.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Do you have RT on ignore?

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I dream about her, so no, I wish.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I think highly of you, and Ty even, and I like ggg, though not everything he posts, and Thurgreed is actually the closest to me of anyone who posts- when we do not not stp we often basically repeat each other. There is no real outrage left here. when I do outrage it is actually grandstanding.

Worth a Watch
 

http://www.upworthy.com/a-boy-in-ame...m-feels?c=huf1

I could watch 2 hours straight of stuff like this.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.