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-   -   Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=661)

Spanky 04-05-2005 08:42 PM

GOP Senator on the Courts
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The current leadership doesn't even give this lip service anymore. Hence, my contemplation of changing party affiliation.
Replace it to what? Peace and Freedom?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-05-2005 08:49 PM

I knew it
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
This is an interesting question, evocative perhaps of Chadha. If it would take another vote of Congress to impeach a judge, then what difference would it make? So to give the statute effect, it might be that Shelby means that someone can impeach a judge by going to court to enforce the statute. But then a judge could narrow the effect of the jurisdiction-limiting provision by ruling that whatever the judge did was not bad behavior. But maybe that statute would be unconstitutional, under a sort of non-delegation doctrine. So does the whole thing get tossed?
I don't see how it delegates to a court. Are you saying that a dissatisfied litigant could simply go into another court and say a judge should be impeached by the court? I can't imagine that would be permitted by any court--it's quite clear that the sole power of impeachment is in the House and the power to try all impeachment cases lies in the Senate.

I think fringey's on the right track, but I don't think that any vote would be compelled. If so, couldn't Congress have passed a statute saying that "any president who lies under oath shall be impeached", and then on that basis alone impeached and convicted clinton? methinks not.

Now, I suppose there's some possible value in the provision as fringe suggests, which is that exercising jurisdiction improperly gives rise to an inference, or a presumption, of a high crime/misdemeanor/non-good behavior, such that a milquetoast rep. could say "while I think that the courts should be able to decide cases, it's quite clear that judge slothrop here violated the statute passed by congress and for that reason I vote to impeach." In other words, it's a bootstrap cover.

ltl/fb 04-05-2005 09:05 PM

I knew it
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I don't see how it delegates to a court. Are you saying that a dissatisfied litigant could simply go into another court and say a judge should be impeached by the court? I can't imagine that would be permitted by any court--it's quite clear that the sole power of impeachment is in the House and the power to try all impeachment cases lies in the Senate.

I think fringey's on the right track, but I don't think that any vote would be compelled. If so, couldn't Congress have passed a statute saying that "any president who lies under oath shall be impeached", and then on that basis alone impeached and convicted clinton? methinks not.

Now, I suppose there's some possible value in the provision as fringe suggests, which is that exercising jurisdiction improperly gives rise to an inference, or a presumption, of a high crime/misdemeanor/non-good behavior, such that a milquetoast rep. could say "while I think that the courts should be able to decide cases, it's quite clear that judge slothrop here violated the statute passed by congress and for that reason I vote to impeach." In other words, it's a bootstrap cover.
Uh, you are putting a lot of thought into this. The guy couldn't even get cosponsors. A lot of total bs bills get proposed . . .

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-05-2005 09:13 PM

I knew it
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
A lot of total bs bills get proposed . . .
Yet, frighteningly, some also get passed. Pub. L. No. 109-3, for example.

sgtclub 04-05-2005 09:30 PM

GOP Senator on the Courts
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Replace it to what? Peace and Freedom?
Indy

ltl/fb 04-05-2005 10:06 PM

I knew it
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Yet, frighteningly, some also get passed. Pub. L. No. 109-3, for example.
could I have either the long or the short name?

anyway, stop fucking with my happy place. if you are talking about the terri schaivo thing, that's not nearly as far-reaching.

Hank Chinaski 04-05-2005 10:39 PM

Photos
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
The Photos as a whole seem to accurately depict the war in Iraq. If that makes them anti-war to anyone, that tells you what that person's attitude is to the war in Iraq.

Frankly, there aren't very many heroic acts in war the way it is fought today. US strategy is to overwhelm the enemy whenever possible and to minimize risk to US forces. And we plan pretty well, and keep our people as far out of the line of fire as possible most of the time. I'm sure every photographer in Iraq would love to catch the very rare occassions when acts of heroism are needed in battle, because those photos would SELL!

On US soldiers helping Iraqis, we've pulled in our Civil Assistance missions because they were too risky. CA is strong in Afghanistan, and a very big part of the overall mission, but no one wants to buy photos of Afghanistan because it is not the story. But in Iraq, CA is virtually non-existent and so most soldiers are not engaged in helping Iraqis on a regular basis. Again, many do, but often times they are violating orders when they do and don't want a photographer around. (For example, doctors have been under orders not to provide assistance to Iraqi civilians unless they are injured by US troops -- any photo showing a doctor aiding a civilian is either going to be captioned "Physician tends to Civilian Injured by US Fire" or is going to get that physician in a hell of a lot of trouble. They are supposed to be saving their supplies to assist US personnel.)
Oh. Thanks.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-05-2005 10:59 PM

I knew it
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
could I have either the long or the short name?

anyway, stop fucking with my happy place. if you are talking about the terri schaivo thing, that's not nearly as far-reaching.
How many cases call into question whether god is the supreme authority? It's not all first amendment cases . . .

and, yeah, 109-3 is the schiavo bill. 3 months and 3 bills. hard at work. can we fire them all?

Hank Chinaski 04-06-2005 12:07 AM

some blogger pix, that maybe are sort of encouraging
 
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/002532.html

Tyrone Slothrop 04-06-2005 12:48 AM

some blogger pix, that maybe are sort of encouraging
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/002532.html
It's frankly beyond me that anyone who would caption this photo with a reference to "securing Fallujah" could complain about media bias.

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/images/boom2.jpg

By your standards, this picture is patently anti-American, Hank.

Tyrone Slothrop 04-06-2005 02:20 AM

What's the over/under on DeLay stepping down? Two weeks? Three? Am I being too hasty?

Less, what'd'you say?

Hank Chinaski 04-06-2005 09:00 AM

some blogger pix, that maybe are sort of encouraging
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It's frankly beyond me that anyone who would caption this photo with a reference to "securing Fallujah" could complain about media bias.

http://www.mudvillegazette.com/images/boom2.jpg

By your standards, this picture is patently anti-American, Hank.
Why? It's pretty colors, and I think we made it that way.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-06-2005 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What's the over/under on DeLay stepping down? Two weeks? Three? Am I being too hasty?

Too hasty. He's survived this long . . . must not be perceived as enough of a liability to the party yet. I would say before the next election season gears up, though, so probably late this year, early next year.

Shape Shifter 04-06-2005 10:52 AM

some blogger pix, that maybe are sort of encouraging
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/002532.html
Nice, but not really Pulitzer material.

http://schadenfreude.cogitox.com/images/patio.jpg

Shape Shifter 04-06-2005 10:56 AM

Do you really think this photo is anti-American?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Dimwit. I didn't question who picked who won, I questioned who entered. AP sent 20 1 sided pictures. AP is a big press source, right?
Ah, I missed this post. Your point that the AP is biased because of which photos it decided to submit for a journalism award is too stupid even to consider. I wouldn't have wasted any more time on the subject.

taxwonk 04-06-2005 11:08 AM

I knew it
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Query--is that provision constitutional? Can Congress by statute define "good behavior"? If so, of what consequence is it? Congress would still have to vote to impeach, no?
Of course it isn't Constitutional. Shelby's grandstanding for the folk back home and to puff up his war chest. You can't simply legislate away the Establishemnt Clause, not to mention that whole "separation of powers" thing that permeates the document.

Hank Chinaski 04-06-2005 11:10 AM

Do you really think this photo is anti-American?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Ah, I missed this post. Your point that the AP is biased because of which photos it decided to submit for a journalism award is too stupid even to consider. I wouldn't have wasted any more time on the subject.
You miss a lot of shit. At work do people have trouble understanding you?

Shape Shifter 04-06-2005 11:18 AM

Do you really think this photo is anti-American?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
You miss a lot of shit. At work do people have trouble understanding you?
I had a better opinion of you before I read that post. My subconcious must have a set of blinders. I'm really just trying to see you in the most positive light.

Hank Chinaski 04-06-2005 11:30 AM

Do you really think this photo is anti-American?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I had a better opinion of you before I read that post. My subconcious must have a set of blinders. I'm really just trying to see you in the most positive light.
You're trying to see me in the light? RT said she caught you in the dark trying to see her through her bedroom window. Why the diff?

Replaced_Texan 04-06-2005 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What's the over/under on DeLay stepping down? Two weeks? Three? Am I being too hasty?

Less, what'd'you say?
Stepping down from the chair?

I was part of a conference call with Richard Morrison last night, and none of us were THAT optimistic.*

DeLay's power stems from his amazing ability to raise and control money for other Republicans. Until it's clear that he doesn't control the purse strings anymore, not that many Rs are going to make moves against him.

*ETA: There is a lot of hope, though. It was a good call.

Sexual Harassment Panda 04-06-2005 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Too hasty. He's survived this long . . . must not be perceived as enough of a liability to the party yet. I would say before the next election season gears up, though, so probably late this year, early next year.
And yet, new stuff keeps popping up virtually every day. I think this moves it up to the early fall at least.

Shape Shifter 04-06-2005 12:11 PM

Do you really think this photo is anti-American?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
You're trying to see me in the light? RT said she caught you in the dark trying to see her through her bedroom window. Why the diff?
So You Won a Pulitzer. Who Cares?

"There's no real science or even fairness behind the picking of winners and losers, with the prizes handed out according to a formula composed of one part log-rolling, two parts merit, three parts 'we owe him one,' and four parts random distribution. "

ltl/fb 04-06-2005 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
And yet, new stuff keeps popping up virtually every day. I think this moves it up to the early fall at least.
Oh please. I'm sure they were providing valuable services. (Seriously, I doubt that that will be the straw. Or even a major contributor. I think his daughter is legitimately an event planner, and it looks like nearly half that money went to her business, and not directly to her as payo . . . a payroll expense. If it went to the business, it probably paid for actual goods and services, etc. I may be being some combination of too cynical and not cynical enough, though.)

Replaced_Texan 04-06-2005 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Oh please. I'm sure they were providing valuable services. (Seriously, I doubt that that will be the straw. Or even a major contributor. I think his daughter is legitimately an event planner, and it looks like nearly half that money went to her business, and not directly to her as payo . . . a payroll expense. If it went to the business, it probably paid for actual goods and services, etc. I may be being some combination of too cynical and not cynical enough, though.)
His daughter ran his campaign last year.

sgtclub 04-06-2005 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Oh please. I'm sure they were providing valuable services. (Seriously, I doubt that that will be the straw. Or even a major contributor. I think his daughter is legitimately an event planner, and it looks like nearly half that money went to her business, and not directly to her as payo . . . a payroll expense. If it went to the business, it probably paid for actual goods and services, etc. I may be being some combination of too cynical and not cynical enough, though.)
Seems to me that Hillary should step down under this logic as well.

ltl/fb 04-06-2005 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Seems to me that Hillary should step down under this logic as well.
Sweet pea, darling, fucking jackasshole, I was actually more or less defending the payments. Christ. I WENT OUT OF MY WAY to defend actions of a PERSON I LOATHE and you fucking bring up Hilary like the knee-jerk assjack you are.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-06-2005 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
His daughter ran his campaign last year.
I was waiting for the part in the article shifter linked to that explained his daughter was 11 years old, but had a killer collection of beanie babies. Oh well, not that easy.

BTW, shifter, I think Ty had that article in mind (i certainly did). He reads today's news yesterday, so he's primed for debate here.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 04-06-2005 12:32 PM

Photos
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Oh. Thanks.
Anytime, dude. Like, sorry to have to impose reality on you - I know it's a bummer.

Way cool avatar man.

Sidd Finch 04-06-2005 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Sweet pea, darling, fucking jackasshole, I was actually more or less defending the payments. Christ. I WENT OUT OF MY WAY to defend actions of a PERSON I LOATHE and you fucking bring up Hilary like the knee-jerk assjack you are.

See? Next time, don't try coddling up to Club like that.

ltl/fb 04-06-2005 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
See? Next time, don't try coddling up to Club like that.
I didn't do it for that assjacky asshole. I did it in a spirit of, you know, like fairness and shit.

I don't care what his registration card says. He's a fucking R through and through, including all the morality crap.

Tyrone Slothrop 04-06-2005 12:44 PM

Do you really think this photo is anti-American?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Ah, I missed this post. Your point that the AP is biased because of which photos it decided to submit for a journalism award is too stupid even to consider. I wouldn't have wasted any more time on the subject.
OTOH, it was a slow day yesterday.

sgtclub 04-06-2005 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Sweet pea, darling, fucking jackasshole, I was actually more or less defending the payments. Christ. I WENT OUT OF MY WAY to defend actions of a PERSON I LOATHE and you fucking bring up Hilary like the knee-jerk assjack you are.
I guess I should adjust off my sarcasm meter.

Hank Chinaski 04-06-2005 01:01 PM

Do you really think this photo is anti-American?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
So You Won a Pulitzer. Who Cares?

"There's no real science or even fairness behind the picking of winners and losers, with the prizes handed out according to a formula composed of one part log-rolling, two parts merit, three parts 'we owe him one,' and four parts random distribution. "
My point was there was no random distribution in the 20 photos, so I guess it was the other parts.

sgtclub 04-06-2005 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I didn't do it for that assjacky asshole. I did it in a spirit of, you know, like fairness and shit.

I don't care what his registration card says. He's a fucking R through and through, including all the morality crap.
What morality crap?

Hank Chinaski 04-06-2005 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Sweet pea, darling, fucking jackasshole, I was actually more or less defending the payments. Christ. I WENT OUT OF MY WAY to defend actions of a PERSON I LOATHE and you fucking bring up Hilary like the knee-jerk assjack you are.
If you want friends, you should be friendly!

ltl/fb 04-06-2005 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
What morality crap?
Your party, of which you are a card-carrying member, has been kind of pushing hard on legislating morality. Your blinders may not be letting that through. That's OK, I'm sure you are happier with them on. Pity they aren't a little tighter, and a few inches lower down.

Sexual Harassment Panda 04-06-2005 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Oh please. I'm sure they were providing valuable services. (Seriously, I doubt that that will be the straw. Or even a major contributor. I think his daughter is legitimately an event planner, and it looks like nearly half that money went to her business, and not directly to her as payo . . . a payroll expense. If it went to the business, it probably paid for actual goods and services, etc. I may be being some combination of too cynical and not cynical enough, though.)
True - but his wife? Check out what she does - "Mrs. DeLay provides big picture, long-term strategic guidance and helps with personnel decisions."* And her monthly paycheck is higher than the daughter's.

* I get that from my spouse for free - and often I don't even have to ask.

Tyrone Slothrop 04-06-2005 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Your party, of which you are a card-carrying member, has been kind of pushing hard on legislating morality. Your blinders may not be letting that through. That's OK, I'm sure you are happier with them on. Pity they aren't a little tighter, and a few inches lower down.
I think Burger was saying yesterday that they've haven't been legislating much of anything. Unless you were referring to bankruptcy reform?

ltl/fb 04-06-2005 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I think Burger was saying yesterday that they've haven't been legislating much of anything. Unless you were referring to bankruptcy reform?
Oh SHUT IT. You know what I mean. Or are you and club best friends now? ETA bankruptcy reform fits the bill for me. Payola to the cc companies.

Pananda, they only cited a couple of months of payments. Whatever. I'm just saying, at least on the daughter's side, it's quite possibly legit and this is far less heinous than other crap DeLay pulls. But you go ahead and think this is going to be the last nail in the coffin. I'm trying to protect you from the inevitable disappointment.

Tyrone Slothrop 04-06-2005 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
But you go ahead and think this is going to be the last nail in the coffin. I'm trying to protect you from the inevitable disappointment.
I really would rather it wasn't the last nail in the coffin. I think that there are larger points to be made about DeLay and the GOP that will be lost if he steps down soon:
  • DeLay's potentially illegal dealings with lobbyists are just coextensive with much more widespread brands of behavior that, while often perfectly legal, are no more morally praiseworthy. The issue here is the rise of a Republican Party that in its House, Senate, and White House incarnations is wholly a prisoner of corporate interests and has abandoned any pretense of ideological principle in an effort to put policy up for sale to the highest bidder. The big game here is hundreds of billions in corporate subsidies masquerading as Medicare reform; massive tax cuts; and the failure to properly enforce labor, environmental, tax, and consumer-protection laws. The real payoffs aren't junkets but the hundreds of millions of dollars that finance the entire conservative institutional apparatus.

While I'm as attuned as the next guy to the frisson of excitement and shudders of pleasure around here that come every time we get another illicit glimpse of DeLay's tawdry dealings, you don't want some things to come to a delightful climax too soon.


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