Re: Good news, Sebby
 

We will not significantly decrease use of fossil fuels until we are in dire crisis. It's dumb. But again, Hillary'd have done little to nothing about it beyond lip service. I agree a denialist at EPA is disturbing. But any more problematic than a serious scientist with no ability to do anything because energy companies bribe his or her boss to kill serious reform?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Not sure that was my goal. You can vote for who you want. I was just calling BS on "she is winning it for sure anyway." My 94 yo FIL voted for some 3rd party too.

My sweet sweet Calabrese aunts said something that sums it up (years ago). They were in Vegas and a busboy dropped an ash tray near them and a glass shard went into Rosario's eyes. She filled out an incident report. When the hotel refused to cover medical I had the pleasure of helping her collect. The report included the question "whose fault was it?" My aunt, protective of the busboy wrote: " no one was at fault. It was an accident." What happened in Mi and Pa, no one's fault; just an accident.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

This is such horseshit, from the same person who breathlessly believed a week ago that an indictment of the Clinton Foundation was coming, a story so false that FOX News actually apologized for it. Have you found that new information yet? If she was for sale, she'd have to take something, and spending money on AIDS treatment in the Third World did not make her or anyone else rich. Also, she'd have to sell something, and no one has ever proved that either.

You like to pose as a free thinker who is somehow above what the partisans believe in, but then you repeat the most banal, insipid horseshit as if it's insight. When you say this stuff, you reveal yourself as the mark. The journalists reported on Hillary's scandals don't really believe there's anything there, but you do.

Shameful Lefty Hand Ringing....
 

Oh, please keep going....

I love this navel gazing. Go on. We've got bags of popcorn. Days and days of popcorn. Keep not getting it.

SlaveNo(Oh, and Less and others owe me lots of fucking money)More

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

They're almost all for sale. And those who aren't, like Bernie, you deride as fools.

You're more a cynic than me, and you're so fucked up and twisted like a pretzel here I feel bad fucking with you.

Stand down, Mr. Krugman. The sun's set on the bullshit you're peddling here. I say this as a friend.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Nigel Farage has my proxy as to explanation. The little people want to be free. Blame them. Or blame those who feel they ought to be their masters.

But don't blame me. (Or do so, if you like.) I'm just a guy laughing at the carnival of blame and recrimination.

And I was wrong. I thought Hillary owned it. That's what us "wise" folks do -- fuck it all up. Cost me a couple bets.

Re: Shameful Lefty Hand Ringing....
 

But, but -- What is the matter with KS?! (And about thirty other states?)

How could these shmucks not have known what was best for them? We knew. We force fed it to them for so long... How did they not come to like it?

And how dare the market gain in the midst of this apocalypse? Classical economics doesn't allow this!

Re: Shameful Lefty Hand Ringing....
 

To paraphrase Obama in 2008, " TRUMP WON" You lost. Bigly.

And Ty, I like you (personally, not on this Board), but why dont you shaddup, and actually focus on your fucking job - I'm tired of having to watch my ____ stock bounce around.

SlaveNoMore

PS - Wow. If Sebby lets this personal attack stand, well, wow.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

You were the outlying actually accurate voice on that. I observed it. And I read RCP and RCM every day. I thought, because my wise friends here and elsewhere so advised, that RCP and RCM were right leaning, so I indulged in other sources, and concluded HRC was a dead lock winner.

I'd take the same position again every day. The aggregate data demanded it.

Trump made a fool of me. And all the other wise folk. History will say he was clever. But I'm increasingly unsure. It seems pretty fucking easy to sneak past a country of self-congratulating echo chambers like this.

HRC gave it a great shot. The serious post mortems ought to be aimed at her voters and supporters.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

How quickly you pivot from saying that she's for sale to saying that they're all for sale. And when did I deride Bernie as a fool? You just say shit.

You don't feel bad. You're just being an asshole.

Oops
 

And that cloying, elitist, arrogant claptrap is why:

THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT REGAIN THE HOUSE

THE DEMOCRATS DID NOT REGAIN THE SENATE

HILLARY CLINTON LOST THE MOST EMBARRASSING DEFEAT IN PRESIDENTIAL POLITICS

But Ty gotta be Ty, Keep going!!!!

My 2 day pop-in is over. See ya'll later.

SlaveNo(CiaoForNow)More

Re: Shameful Lefty Hand Ringing....
 

[QUOTE=SlaveNoMore;503631]Asking if I'd let some slight stand.

Fucks given? See Bluto's GPA as stated by Dean Wormer in Animal House.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Actually, I do. You're unspooled here.

Re: Oops
 

Don't sell your holdings, Slave. Everything's coming up roses. Just don't buy AMZN - they're worried there.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

As Winston Churchill said, in the morning I'll be sober, and you'll still be ugly.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I suspected the last few of your posts were brought to us by the good monks at Chimay. Had a certain looseness to them.

There's not much point beating this dead horse any further. We'll never agree why HRC lost. But for all the same reasons we'd have mocked the Trumpkins for complaining the election was rigged had they lost, we could mock the HRC supporters for spraying blame in all directions but inward.

This thing happened. It isn't going away, and the broader movement behind it is much bigger than a mere election. And that's not going away any time soon.

You, me, almost all of us here... We've enjoyed the benefits of a system that has left a shitload of people in the dust. We thought we could ignore them, or dismiss them with statements like, "well, there are winners and losers in trade..." We thought we could write them off with statements like, "technology ultimately creates more jobs than it eliminates," while coyly ignoring the speed with which it does the latter and the glacial timeline over which it does the former. We've bought into silly Kennedy Era notions like "education will fix it all."

Trump grabbed in excess of 25% of the Latino vote. He stole a huge chunk of the union vote. He won 42% of women.

If you want to look for the true fault lines, and not buy into the "it's mostly racism and sexism" bullshit sold to "the marks" (your term), look at people with assets versus people without. That's where I think the significant split lies. Also look at who's in business for themselves, and who's in small business versus working as a cog in a big business.

The people without assets had nothing to lose voting for Trump. Hillary was bringing more of what Obama and Bush had brought them -- a managed decline, rather than hope of a real job. The people with assets, with capital - people like us - had something to lose. We benefit more from globalism and tech, which delivers to investors at cost to domestic labor. The people who are in business for themselves, who feel acutely and directly the impact of an ever more intrusive state, in the form of licensing strictures and regulation, and compliance bullshit, had much to gain with Trump. The people in jobs at large concerns - the kind of people here - have never felt the direct hand of regulation and compliance concerns on their backs. (They may deal with it, but they don't suffer a hit to the bottom line because of it.)

Who here but Hank actually has to make a payroll every week? I'm not sure any of us are really qualified to explain this phenomenon. But to start flinging blame around without serious looking inward, at your own side's failings - and I mean your side's often limited and tribalist thinking, not the failings of HRC as a candidate - is useless sour grapes. The thing is done. Blame is useless. Try to make the best of it.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Yup.

That stench is bad today, but after a few years of not washing....

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Yes, somehow we have to try to limit the damage our generation and our parents' generation does and hold the fort for the youngsters. We don't get to leave them a better world, we hope they'll improve ours. As others have said, I so hope the nuclear codes have more than 140 characters.

I'm tired. It's not just the fatigue from my medical stuff, it's also too much time listening to loud obnoxious white guys. God how I hate listening to all the loud obnoxious white guys. I'm so fucking tired.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

?? Did I miss your move to Wyoming?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

That you still see that from him is amazing. The man will start a war in the temper tantrum some time in the next four years.

If he can get that out of a GOP congress, it would be a silver lining.

He can, but he can surprise on the downside too.

ETA: What's terrifying is if he actually does what he said he will do. A lot of it I don't think he will actually try to do or be able to get congress to go along with. So, the truly terrifying is hopefully not what's going to happen, but plenty of women and brown people are going to get to enjoy a re-invogorated crudeness at best and potentially much worse.

What's just scary is how much free rein he will give the GOP congress to do all the crap they've said they want to do for six years. For some reason, you Sebby, never seem to mention this.

Re: Good news, Sebby
 

Except we have been significantly decreasing fossil fuels - particularly coal in electricity generation - and the solar and wind technology is very close to winning that competition outright. We should be killing coal, not reviving it.

Why do you think she'd part with Obama on this?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

No he didn't. People who should have voted Dems stayed home. That's the story. That had nothing to do with him. He got fewer votes than Romney (or roughly the same, whatever).

Some of it's on Hillary for seemingly coasting on "Trump is so terrible" after the debates.

Some of it's on voters who failed to appreciate the stakes and/or were overconfident in the outcome (eh-hem).

Some of it's on voter suppression.

Some of it's on the party for nominating a candidate who couldn't inspire anyone.

Some of it's on the media for treating the outrageous things Trump said as normal and pretending that the emails were in some way equivalent.

Some of it's on misogyny.

ETA: The debate for the Dems right now is whether to go with your story: white working class voters need their economic anxiety addressed.

Personally, I think that as long as bigotry appeals to WWC voters, there's nothing the Dems can do appeal to them. We've got to turn everyone else instead.

Technocratic policy proposals are simply not an effective response to "I'll get rid of the illegals who are stealing your jobs" and "I'm going to end trade."

Meanwhile the Bernie-left would like the Dems to be more anti trade. Problem is, they are empirically wrong about trade.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Sure, as long as you ignore the available data.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Some individual data points:

The first thing my daughter, a budding young engineering student, did after the election was pull her application to the DOD's SMART program.

One of our best friends is trying to qualify their son, at West Point now, for a buyout of their post-graduation service time.

My sister is trying to get her husband to retire from the service (he is a Captain with 20 years in). He's probably going to retire, even though he's on track for Admiral in the next couple of years.

The people I know who worry about war worry about Trump. And many people willing to fight our wars will not want to fight Trump's wars.

But maybe there's a ton of half-wits from Sebby's neck of the wood eager to learn how to program some advanced weaponry in the name of killing people different than them. Or maybe we can get some of the heavily armored police from Ferguson to go someplace where someone will shoot back.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Ah. My fault. Worst in that he was looked to by so many as someone who could provide accurate predictions. And now he's just like everyone else (even if he outperformed many, he was still way off). And that means way fewer clicks, which is sure to put a huge dent in his business.

TM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I find the analysis mildly interesting, but I go to those sites more for the raw data showing what poll was what. His data was a little easier to read and mine than realclearpolitics was, but took more clicks to get to.

The algorithms do a great job of predicting elections that were just like the last one, and always will. Increasingly, this is true of the polls, too, since pollsters today poll smaller groups than they used to but apply all kinds of filters to them. In other words, polling sucks.

Who wants to start a new oldskool polling company?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

As far as I can tell, Michael Moore was the only one who got it right.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Fuck you.

TM

Re: Good news, Sebby
 

I don't even want to visit the pretend world in which you live. There is no point in telling you that this guy wants to tear up the Paris Accord. There is no point arguing with you about Hillary's actual fucking policy position because you haven't read it but you already know what she would have done based on what the marbles that roll around in your otherwise empty head are currently doing. You are the most dangerous kind of stupid there is.

TM

Re: Oops
 

Bye, jackass.

TM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Digest this and get back to me.

Some of the Ds get it. You aren't one of them.

Re: Good news, Sebby
 

Of course she's preferable on climate change. And he's an idiot on that issue. But putting aside promises, how much would they differ in regard to actual policy implementation? Not much. If you think she wasn't going to flip flop on Keystone XL, you're too silly for this debate.

But I will concede the Paris Accord is one area in which they differ in both promises and implementation. That's far more than mainly correct.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

For you and Adder on white women's self-loathing - http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...for_trump.html . Or, again, it wasn't about what most of us think it was about.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

The fact that you posted an article that agrees with you from Huffington Post makes you right about nothing. There are thousand post-election analysis pieces. Congrats on finding one.

The problem with you is that you don't stand for fucking anything. You are a selfish asshole who tries so hard in your own way to act like you're above everything. Nothing matters to Sebby. These people with opinions are wrong to have opinions for this reason. Those people are wrong for some other bullshit reason. You are an empty vessel that is convinced he's processing all of the madness around him and spitting out bitter truths to those who are oh so invested. But you're completely and utterly full of shit. I think out of every hundred posts you say something that makes sense and that's clearly by accident. But you will continue to mainly think that you mostly correct on everything without understanding that that one statement defines you here. And it's fucking ridiculous. I don't know what the fact that you have zero self awareness says about you. But it ain't good.

TM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

That was better than I thought it would be at the outset, but I have to express frustration with "go to a town that no longer has a reason to exist and see how bad it is."

Like, what is that supposed to tell us? Once, the railyard or textile mill or whatever made that town grow to a size that it no longer needs. Or now we cultivate way more crops with fewer people than we needed a hundred years ago. That happens. There's literally nothing to be learned from an individual dying rural town, aside from the fact that its residents should be thinking about moving.

And this person knows that, saying the East Liverpool had contractions in the '50s and the '80s. You know what? Other places didn't. Why weren't those contractions the coming wave of doom that will get us all??

Because that's not how it works.

"Ground-breaking coalition-building between working class whites and people of color"?? Are your eyes closed and your ears plugged???

Re: Good news, Sebby
 

Whatever.

Re: Good news, Sebby
 

Stop it. You're making shit up to justify your decision making. It's stupid.

No, she wasn't going to flop on Keystone. Probably DAPL, but no, Keystone is dead.

He may not wind up being as terrible as he's promised, but he is going to do things that she would not have. At least in the real world, not the one where you just make up her positions for her.

Re: Good news, Sebby
 

You're too silly for this debate. Everybody knows which positions of hers are real and clearly which she would have flip flopped on. By the way, I think we should ignore everything Trump has said and done his entire life. He's going to surprise some people with his upside even though the first thing he's done is appoint a climate change skeptic to run transition at the EPA and mull over which of his psychotic, unhinged attack dogs will be taking which cabinet position.

TM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

I posted that not because it's from HuffPo, but because she nails it.

You don't realize that you demonstrate everything you criticize in the quote above. You know everything about everything. But you are correct about one thing: I don't believe in much. I'll admit that. I'll own it as "my truth." But you know what? That makes me more qualified to assess that on which I comment. I'm not as emotionally invested. I can see both sides of the coin. I think "believing in things" too much is a lot of what's wrong with this country. We just watched a tribal exercise where believers ignored facts, and a reality TV star nudged out a cipher funded by corporate interests at odds with 90% of her voters.

That was a good article. You should reread it.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

There is something to be learned from a dying town: That its residents should have moved out of it long ago.

That's the worst part of Trump's "bringing back jobs" con. He's telling people they are entitled to jobs right where they are, in obsolete skill sets.

But generally, the article is really fucking great. I see the flyover land whites a lot where I am, and from 2008 forward, every bitch and moan has been, "they bailed out the banks, and they fucked main street." It's all about jobs, jobs, jobs. The media and Dems emphasized the shit out of the racism and sexism elements because: (1) Gives immediate moral high ground; (2) Avoids discussing the fact that the Jobs Are Not Coming Back, Ever.

Romney and McCain got pummeled for honestly telling working class voters the jobs were gone forever. The Ds shrewdly stayed the fuck away from that issue. This of course opened that giant canyon Trump filled with his "I'll bring back jobs" bullshit.

But don't let me break up the circle jerk of everybody telling each other over and over it was mostly racism and sexism. Nevermind Trump got 1/4 the Latino vote, and 53% of women. Nevermind all that. A feel good narrative's better.