Re: We will never agree on this and therefore it is pointless to talk about!
 

Yes, but the WH is going to sign off on its work....

Re: Ah, Change
 

Its like you don't even know me anymore.........

Re: Really?
 

say what you will about Charles Johnson, he retired Rather.

Re: Ah, Change
 

On any issues relating to taxes, Cato thinks about as much as you do when the doctor hits your knee with that little rubber mallet.

Re: Ah, Change
 

Lemme guess -- on the Editorial page, right?

Re: Ah, Change
 

The bill is not aimed to incentivize economic activity. It is has the government do the spending. Many conservatives have an ideological problem with that.

Re: Ah, Change
 

only on an efficiency basis.

Re: Ah, Change
 

In a post-partisan world, an honest person would admit that the WSJ editorial board is no worse than the NYTimes editorial board.

Re: Ah, Change
 

And plenty of other economists more or less support it. Many others say the package is much too small.*

"First, assume a spherical cow."


*Largely to the good offices of aforesaid GOP personnel.

S_A_M

Re: Ah, Change
 

Who here has argued otherwise?

Re: Ah, Change
 

funny. none of you say, who the fuck knows if it will work, but it seems the best shot, and of course lots of it will be wasted, but no one can predict 100% what is waste.

instead you all post as if certain, which, despite the numeric differences, at most make slave's stuff tied for dumbest* with every one of you.

*I"m not saying slave has or hasn't been dumb, I'm using an SJ standard.

Slave Milks Ron Paul's Spherical Cow
 

Of course. But wasn't it also interesting thing that on that list of over 150 so-called economists from the Cato Institute, Slave could only find a half dozen that weren't rabid Ron Paul supporters. Even after all that googling...

I would have suspected at least a handful more would have gone with Romney.

Re: Ah, Change
 

Isn't that what my post just said, more or less?

S_A_M

Re: Ah, Change
 

Here is irrelevant, no offence. I am indicting the MSmedia and the rest of the too far to the left still partisan leftist cabal.

Re: Ah, Change
 

I am 100% with you so far.

I have two quibbles with this. First, neither of us know what "lots" means, and second, we probably don't agree on what "waste" means. Around here (and in a lot of the media) it seems to get defined as "stuff I don't agree with." By that definition, I am sure you will find lots and I will find some, but that is a pretty ridiculous definition.

But I will agree that by any definition there is likely to be some waste.

Re: Ah, Change
 

Were you using the white font trick? good thing bilmore has gone to heaven.

Re: Ah, Change
 

.............................................[sniff]

Re: Ah, Change
 

In a post-partisan world, an honest person would admit that the WSJ leaves its opinion pieces on the Op-Ed pages; whereas the NYT puts them on Page 1, often above the fold.

Re: Ah, Change
 

Or as much as you listen when I'm yelling your name from across the street at [insert typical Irish bar here] to say Hello?

Re: Slave Milks Ron Paul's Spherical Cow
 

If you bothered to actually look up the presidential candidate that each of those economists supported - and I highly doubt that even you would do such a thing - then (i) who's doing all the googling? and (ii) go get a life.

Pork?
 

I wish there was a different term for it, because I love pork. Real pork - as in meat from the pig: Roast pork, pulled pork, pork chops, cocido, carnitas, trotters, sausage, and of course, the food of all foods, Bacon.

As for "Pork", well, since like Congress, I havent read it (nor have you), here are some Cliff Notes:

----
Thanks to Tom Coburn, here's the latest list of wasteful spending in the bill just passed by the House. Note also that the conference gutted some of the important amendments Senator Coburn got passed in the Senate.

"Wasteful and Non-Stimulative Spending in the House-Senate Conference Report (Note: Many of these items are typically debated and funded through the regular budget process. Including these items in an emergency “stimulus” spending bill plays an Enron-style shell game with taxpayer dollars. We’re borrowing from the next generation to avoid tough budget choices today.)

• $8 billion for high-speed railway (including an earmark for an Los Angeles to Las Vegas MagLev)
• $1 billion for the “FutureGen” not-ready-for-primetime near zero emission plant in Illinois (a/k/a Blago's pet project)
• $53.6 billion for the “state stabilization” slush fund
• $1.3 billion for Amtrak
• $24 million for USDA buildings and rent
• $176 million for renovating Agricultural Research Service buildings
• $290 million for flood prevention activities
• $50 million for watershed rehabilitation
• $1.4 billion for wastewater disposal programs
• $295 million for administrative expenses associated with food stamp program
• $1 billion for the 2010 Census
• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges and libraries
• $650 million for the DTV converter box coupon program
• $830 million for NOAA research and facilities
• $2 billion for Byrne JAG program
• $10 million to combat Mexican gunrunners
• $125 million for rural communities to combat drug crimes
• $1 billion for the COPS program
• $1 billion for NASA
• $3.7 billion to conduct "green" renovations on military bases
• $375 million for Mississippi River projects
• $10 million for urban canals
• $2 billion to develop advanced batteries for hybrid cars
• $3.4 billion for fossil energy research (possibly including an earmark for FutureGen)
• $5.1 billion for environmental cleanup around military bases
• $5.5 billion for "green" federal buildings
• $300 million for "green" cars for federal employees
• $20 million for IT upgrades at the Small Business Administration
• $200 million to design and furnish DHS headquarters
• $210 million for State and local fire stations
• $146 million for trail maintenance at National Park Service sites
• $140 million for volcano monitoring systems
• $600 million for the EPA Superfund environmental cleanup program
• $200 million to clean up leaking underground storage tanks
• $500 million for forest health and wildfire prevention
• $25 million for the Smithsonian Institution
• $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
• $1.2 billion for "youth activities" (for "youth" up to 24 years old)
• $500 million earmark for NIH facilities in Bethesda, MD
• $1 billion for Head Start
• $32 million for home-delivered nutrition services
• $160 million for volunteer programs at the Corporation for National and Community Service
• $500 million earmark for the SSA National Computer Center in MD
• $220 million for the International Boundary and Water Commission, U.S. and Mexico"

----

Different people can reasonably take different positions on the merits of spending on these projects, but none of this is the job-creating and/or infrastructure-building stimulus that was supposed to be at the heart of the Bill.

Re: Slave Milks Ron Paul's Spherical Cow
 

dude, look at the range of things he claims knowledge of. he looks up everything then posts. you can't see that?

Re: Slave Milks Ron Paul's Spherical Cow
 

A lot of posters and socks do that. And then people get on A-Rod about steroids. Hypocrites?

Re: Pork?
 

Interesting that Coburn is four scandals behind.

Re: Ah, Change
 

The first guy you quoted was complaining the stimulus bill isn't going to incentivize people to create jobs. But that's not the point.

No one would be pushing the stimulus bill on efficiency grounds. The point is to stimulate the economy.

Re: Pork?
 

I got the first item on your list and then stopped reading (unlike that crap from Pajamas Media that you made me read). Why? Because it's false. There is no earmark in the stimulus bill for high-speed rail between LA and Vegas. Nor is there money earmarked to study Pelosi's mouse. If the bill is so bad, why do conservatives have to keep making shit up about it?

And, by the way, spending on high-speed rail certainly can stimulate the economy, and isn't necessarily wasteful. Coburn is probably the kind of guy who would have objected to spending public money to build airports at the start of the airline industry.

Re: Slave Milks Ron Paul's Spherical Cow
 

dissent. i post like i know what I"m talking about, about almost any issue you can name: but I don't learn anything beforehand.

Re: Ah, Change
 

Heheh.

No, but I think that my noting that some economists hate the stimulus package and some like it, while some think it is way too small, is a pretty fair impersonation of "Who the fuck knows if it will work -- certainly not the experts?"

As for the rest of it, do we really need to say that some of the cash will be wasted? Of course it will. Cripes.

If you're harking back to my assaults on the House GOP to suggest I speak with certainty -- well, its certainty about them not the stimulus package. besides -- you give RT a pass on Delay, I should get a pass on Boehner.

S_A_M

Re: Pork?
 

I think you'll be proven 100% wrong in time, but that said, if so, it would be a good thing.

I live in Pelosi's district, and I was deathly worried that I'd have to apply for a tax credit for my exterminator costs. Mice are vermin.

Re: Ah, Change
 

When the fuck did everyone around here become so blase about wasting billions of dollars of cash? WTF?

Re: Pork?
 

He isn't from NY or FL, nor does he have a large Jewish constituency, so he hasn't really followed the Madoff scandal.

And Daschle and Richardson just don't have the same ooomph as "Enron."

Re: Ah, Change
 

Bullshit. The point was to cram through as many pet projects as possible.

Re: Pork?
 

If you think I'm wrong, the bill is on line -- try to show me where the earmark is. But I wouldn't waste your time. I've seen a story saying that the GOP staffer who wrote the press release acknowledges that what people are saying is just wrong.

Re: Ah, Change
 

I've had two friends tell me in the last two weeks that they've been laid off. I wouldn't have thought either was at risk.

eta:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-cont...0212224016.gif

Re: Ah, Change
 

If that were true, the bill would be full of earmarks.

Re: Ah, Change
 

And you think that there are not more or less efficient ways to do it?

One way to do it without all the politic bullshit would be to create a government fund of $1 trillion. Home owners of a net worth below some level ($1MM......$500k...) could apply for a draw/grant of up to $XXX each, solely for the principal paydown of a primary resident mortgage. Non-homeowners could get tax credits of up to $xxx for a first time primary residence home purchase, with such credits usable over up to 3.....5 years. Homeowners get equity, banks get cash infusion and cleaned up balance sheets. Home ownership is increased, housing crisis solved, building industry likely invigorated, and more than a trillion dollars (taking into account the first time home buyers) flows through the economy in what should be a short period of time.


Instead we get a whole bunch of pork, and tax cuts, which the Ds led me to believe were one of things that got us into this mess in the first place.

Re: Ah, Change
 

Your solution is to re-inflate the housing bubble with the government money? Um, no thanks.

As for the tax cuts -- that was an effort at bipartisanship.

Re: Ah, Change
 

Dissent. No subprime lending deals for the first time buyers. conventional 30 year mortgages. You are not reinflating it, you are creating equity, and cleansing toxified assets. As a hedge, you put a limitation on people who take the money-no cash out refis for 5 years after pay down. Keep in mind some experts estimate that with the decline in RE prices, much of urban american residential real estate may now be undervalued (Seattle excepted!! woo hoo!).

Re: Ah, Change
 

And you thought W would have no lasting legacy.

S_A_M

Re: Ah, Change
 

Three for me last week. One of them very close.