Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

really? then the game is way more complex than I thought. I thought you look at your group and try to see two wins- and maybe go for the tie in the third game- but all dependant on the team you play.

like if the US played Slovenia first round they would know they had to win, whereas we knew a draw with the UK would be great.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

I was at the Masters in the days when people still used pay phones. we were watching the 12th green. I had to go make a routine client hand holding call so I walked to the rest area near there and made my call.

there is this huge roar- a guy got a hole in one while I was explaining about a scheduling issue. it was just practice round, but still, I triple billed for the call.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

I had no idea that was the argument I was having. I just said that when I watch a competition, I like to see which team is better. And the best way to prove that is to have one of the teams win.

TM

Greece v. Nigeria
 

Red card! Penalties are worse than hockey penalties -- Nigeria has to play for almost an hour down one man. That's harsh.

ETA: In hockey if someone gets tossed, there is often an entertaining fight to go along with it. This was just a stupid leg lift and sort of kick at someone. Snore.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

My post was not really directed at you, but at the debate that seems to constantly come up when people talk about soccer. All the analysis about why the rest of the world can like a sport where people don't score a lot or why Americans are unable to appreciate the subtleties of the game seems to be just crap. It really just comes down to people liking the sports they grew up with and understand. Take this shit from that NYT blog:

"We in this country prefer pastimes that are rational and quantifiable. Football plays can be drawn up in a playbook and baseball lends itself to statistical analysis. But the rest of the world follows a sport that rewards resilience and neuroticism. Soccer is a sport perfectly designed to reinforce a tragic view of the universe, because basically it is a long series of frustrations leading up to near certain heartbreak."

Seriously? It reinforces a tragic view of the universe? That is why the British and the Brazilians love soccer?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

You could add the regional bend to that. Look @ NASCAR in the south. or just HOW BIG football is in the south at the high school and college level.

I don't think it is as huge a hit up north but could be wrong.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

So a three-shot penalty shoot-out after a 5-minute sudden-death overtime resolves that question meaningfully in a regular season NHL game?

Re: Greece v. Nigeria
 

In hockey if someone gets tossed it's more likely because there was a blatant cheap shot to the head with a stick or shoulder. How often do players get tossed for a regular scrap? Unless they're third-man in.

And penalties in soccer surely are more sweetly awarded than in any sport*, what with the ref slowly building the drama before pulling the card out of the pocket. Totally entertaining watching the RSA goalie standing there waving his hand both as a plea and a "Noooooooo", and then still getting the red card. I'd love to see an NBA ref do that to Kobe some time. Or Rasheed Wallace.



* The only thing nearly as cool is the now-departed college charging call (putting aside TM's objections) with the ref running the other way with the hand behind his head.

Re: Greece v. Nigeria
 

I'm totally waiting with bated breath for someone to melt down and say "Take it to the Sports Board" if there is one even. heh.

I actually did invent this...
 

...9 years ago.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2010/06/...8571276707344/

Stupid 9-year old kid.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

I liked this article, which says, yeah it's not anywhere near the other major sports in the US, but who cares? It's certainly making lots of strides and is growing pretty quickly here.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Well, maybe the Brits.

TM

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Didn't say that. If it were up to me, there would be no shoot-outs. In hockey, I think it would be cool to have each team drop a man (until you have only 4 guys, one of them the goalie) after each overtime until someone scores. And you just keep playing until someone does.

With soccer, I don't know if there is a better way than penalty kicks because the field is just too fucking big. And I must admit, I was pretty excited when the US women's team hit that penalty kick years back. But, Ty's comment about long-term tournament strategery notwithstanding, ties suck.

TM

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

So does the NBA regular season, which is the rough equivalent of when ties are applicable. Once the playoffs start, there are no ties.

And I consider home and home series isn't much different than an NBA playoff series, just with the results of the first match directly affecting the strategy of the second.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Well, you've convinced me. I now feel the same way about soccer as I do about basketball.

TM

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

I agree with you, but for whatever reasons I find it increasingly hard to care about two sports I grew up with, football and basketball, and spend more and more of my time watching a sport I didn't grow up watching, soccer. I barely watch the NFL at all anymore. I spent the night outside the Boston Garden once to get SRO tickets for the playoffs, and now I just can't really be bothered to care whether they win tonight. I mean, I care some, but just not that much. OTOH, I'm willing to go without much sleep in order to see, e.g., New Zealand-Slovakia.

But I don't think my experience is typical.


God bless 'em, they have to print something or they can't sell advertising.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Well, good then.

What's next on the "change TM's mind" agenda?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

For you,maybe being able to openly cheer for North Korea and Iran has a lot to do with it?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Yeah, too bad Iran (like Zimbabwe and Cuba) isn't in the tournament.

eta: I wasn't watching the game, but I'm not sure how any non-Brazilian could have watch that North Korea game and not have rooted for them.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

It is neither typical nor sane.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Well said. And, again, when people who rub themselves to orgasm over a "perfect game" in baseball complain that a scoreless soccer game is boring, I have to laugh. Oh, how I laugh.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

It would be like cheering for the Nazi players in Victory, or something.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

The analogy still sucks. It would be better if in the history of the world cup there had been only 20 0-0 draws.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

I hate my job. Go.

TM

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

I don't mind ties. I hate, hate, hate shootouts. I really would like FIFA to think of something better. Maybe allow some extra subs in the overtime, so that you can get some guys with fresh legs who can add some speed to the offense?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

So perfect games are exciting because they are rare. And no-hitters?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Does it matter who they're playing?

http://www.yorapper.com/Photos/brazil-soccer-fan.jpg

spree: partial areola peeking out of Brazilian fan's tank top.

TM

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Could be worse?

I got nothin. Sorry.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

I think Ty's ambiguous "them" was referring to DPRK, and wondering who would not root for them. But it looks like it's going to be tough to change TM's mind on this one.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

A perfect game and, in most cases, a no hitter displays a high degree of skill (combined with some luck) by a pitcher performing as best he (or any of them) can perform.

Rarely is a 0-0 tie displaying something similar in the way of exceptional skill. More typically they result from indifferent display of skill, with two teams not making much effort offensively in an effort to avoid concession of goals.

Your analogy would be closer if you compared it to, say, a 4-0 soccer game in which one team thoroughly dominated on offense while also not conceding goals. But that's not the analogy you're making, and even then would not be a very good one. It would be closer in analogy to a 31-0 NFL shutout.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Would you prefer to be a fat, stupid, boring paralegal?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Perfect game doesn't mean a scoreless game.

And as others have mentioned perfect games are rare and no hitters are a demonstration of skill. Having grown up with baseball and not soccer, the strategery involved in baseball is both easier for me to understand and more interesting.

How boring a 0-0 soccer game would be probably depends on how many good goal attempts there were. If the goalkeeper makes a number of exciting saves in a game it would be more interesting.

Than again I like hockey so I'm all about speed of play and shots on goal.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Exactly. Plus for a perfect game you need perfect fielding. It's not just the pitcher.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

that pic is from 3 world cups ago, isn't it?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Fixed that. (And no.)

TM

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

First, I find baseball to be staggeringly dull, regardless of the score. Going to games is fun, but generally not because of the game. Most of the fans get more excited about the dot race than anything else.

Second, some 0-0 soccer games are badly played. Some are brilliantly played. The Italy-Brazil final in 1994, which was 0-0 IIRC, and decided on a shootout (which I still hate), was among the most thrilling games I've seen. And I have to seriously question the honesty of anyone who says, or seems to be saying, "that game was really boring, but if each goalie had screwed up once or twice and there had been some goals then it would have been much more exciting!"

Third, I fail to understand Fugee's notion, or your notion, that a scoreless game is good if there were lots of attempts on goals but not otherwise. Actually, I do understand it -- it's a statement by someone who does not understand the game at all, and cannot recognize that a scoreless game can well be a product of a good offense failing to overcome a good defense.

Fourth, I suspect that you don't give a shit about whether I like baseball, and rightly so. Likewise, me, you, and soccer.

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Not even if someone bought you a purse?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

That says more about the "fans", or the A's, than the game of baseball.

There's no question a 0-0 soccer game can be entertaining. But that's the small circle inside the much bigger circle of 0-0 games. Ty-Venn for us?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

Does it matter? Would it be better with more vuvuzela?

Re: The thread where Spring has sprung, and Penske has risen from the law. Word!
 

I had lunch today with former co-workers, whose little bit of shop talk made me never want to work again.

Especially as I am about to go watch soccer at a bar!