Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Yeah, it's not the debt forgiveness part I disagree with.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

What is it (beside the inside of your asshole from which you pulled this analysis) that makes you think he's vacant? I've listened to him and he is very smart and thoughtful.

TM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

I think you are intentionally shutting your eyes to the reality of what happened in order to avoid the conversation and to suit your opinion.

The story and the photo came out. It looked bad and got a lot of attention. Franken was on his heels. More accusers came out--some of them completely anonymous. He denied some of the claims made and asked for an investigation/hearing. A ground swell emerged which Gillibrand was the first, loudest, and most frequent critic leading the charge to have him step down. I'm sure he was asked to do it in private as well, but who knows. He left.

If you're going to lean on the fact that (i) he's a politician and wasn't being convicted so he doesn't deserve a hearing/investigation and/or (ii) he decided not to fight the entire Democratic Party during the height of the #MeToo Movement under the tremendous pressure exerted on him by his fellow party members, that's fine. You just come off as a disingenuous jackass who is trying to justify what happened because you agree with the outcome.

TM

Re: Thanks for the Recommendation
 

Disappointing. Aside from great and cheap hotels, some decent temples, and some awesome restaurants, there isn't much more. Great Peking duck, though. I think we went to Fei Ya, but I'm not entirely sure that's correct. It was on the second floor of some fancy hotel.

TM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Ultimately my point is that because of the politics of the situation, there wasn't another way for this to go.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Here's the thing. I think we ought to hold elected officials to a high standard, and that multiple credible charges of truly bad behavior (whether or not criminal, and especially if that bad behavior relates to racism, sexism, or sexual assault) can (and generally should) sufficiently impair someone's qualification for the office, credibility, and ability to their job that it makes sense for them to step aside.

Should we be giving Northam or Fairfax some process or hearing before they step down? I'd say giving a little time to verify the credibility of the accusers and the underlying facts is often a good idea, because sometimes the crazy stuff that comes out first is misleading. And some degree of forgiveness should be afforded for old incidents where there is true contrition.

Franken's case is tough because I do think he showed contrition; but for that, I'm good with him being gone, and I don't know what there was that might have kept coming out if he remained in the spotlight - he made the choice to go. The incidents involved Franken were pretty gross and fully credible. I' just don't feel that contrition in Northam's case, and I just haven't paid enough attention yet to Fairfax.

One way or another, Virginia deserves not to have leaders with a cloud over their head and a proven record of being jackasses, so they need to figure it out.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Because he's just that forgettable.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

He checks all the right boxes, and he's charismatic. But it's all general and has that "engineered by handlers" polish to it. I don't see him competing with the likes of Harris or Warren when they get into the weeds. I think Booker would school him on policy as well, and Brown certainly could.

Nice guy, good ideas, but too young. You can be a bit green when you're as gifted as Obama. Beto is no Obama.

In a few more years, with some offices under his belt, Beto will be a contender. But I think he was more a shiny object for the media last cycle (He can beat Cruz, the most hated man in DC!) than a serious political force.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

If the national debt doesn't matter, and you don't object to debt forgiveness, what's the issue?

Re: Thanks for the Recommendation
 

I hear Doha is quite nice. Creepy in terms of naked opulence.

A family member who was there for a few weeks recently asked how they could have a mosque with actual gold leafing. The reply from a guide was, Because no one needs to steal.

That and they cut off your hand if you do.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

He is a charismatic guy with good ideas who is a bit too green right now but will be a contender in a few years. I guess "vacant" doesn't mean what I thought it did.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

I'm being charitable. His checking off all the boxes is, as I suspect and have noted, based on handlers crafting a really swell platform for him.

He's also benefiting from looks. Chicks dig him, and he was running against a portly, mean, hunch-shouldered Joseph McCarthy lookalike (and sometimes soundalike).

Warren would own him on economics in 30 seconds.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Right. And I disagree. If it hadn't been for people like Gillibrand (who saw an opportunity to build her brand) who weren't interested in his side at all, the political pressure wouldn't have been such that he would have had a chance to be heard, to defend himself, and to be appropriately punished.

TM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

He was a big boy. He made his choices on each occasion.

Blaming Gilli is a cop out.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Beto lost to Cruz 50.9 - 48.3, a margin of 2.6%. Trump beat Clinton in Texas, 52.0 to 43.1, a margin of 8.9%. So Beto outperformed the top of the ticket by 6.3%. That's a lot. You can say that Cruz is disliked, but so is Trump.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

She is not responsible for what he did. She is responsible for what she said, but a lot of other people said the same things, and she seems to get a disproportionate share of flak on that score.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

You can't really understand the difference between dislike for Cruz and Trump until you've spent time hanging out with GOP campaign managers.

Cruz might be hated more by Republicans than Democrats.

From DC to bumfuck, ask a GOP operative about Cruz and they'll explain why they wish any other sentient creature could win that seat for the GOP. The line I heard often about him was that he's not a Republican, but in the "Party of Ted Cruz." Libertarians, liberals, conservatives, non-voters, people who don't even live in this country -- people who may never have even heard of Ted Cruz, but osmotically absorb the impenetrable dread that enters the bones upon hearing his name -- hate Ted Cruz.

Ted Cruz's wife hates Ted Cruz, and won't allow photos, or any likeness of him, in her bedroom. Mitch McConnell, who subsists on a breakfast shake of powdered hatred and children's blood, has privately expressed astonishment at the level of hatred he senses for Cruz within The Force. John Boehner can't recall 15 minutes ago, or his shoe size, but will publicly claim to anyone who'll listen that he wishes to see 90 only to dance on Ted Cruz's grave.

Ted Cruz hates Ted Cruz, and it takes him seven paragraphs to explain all the reasons why in adequate detail.

I digress, but the point is, there's hatred, and then there's Hatred of Ted Cruz. And these are different like a Hyundia and a Maybach are different. People will hold their nose and vote for Trump. Not even his mother would vote for Ted Cruz.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Two different issues.

He fucked up, both in what he did and in not maneuvering to outlast the cries for his ouster more effectively and aggressively than he did. Fault is ultimately his that he's not in office.

She played it for political gain. She's got to suffer the negative impressions that garnered.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

If Texas voters were all political insiders, and if no one had strong feelings about Trump, that would be incredibly persuasive.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Among those likely running for president, Harris, Brown, Warren and Sanders all called for him to resign. Why weren't they "play[ing] it for political gain" and, if they were, why haven't you mentioned it?

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

I don't know what your basis for the Beto assessment is, but he has an absolutely amazing ground game and brought Texas up considerably in the Senate race. There were pop up campaign shops all over the state, and the block walking app was outstanding. He had thousands of volunteers mobilized, and he NEVER seemed exhausted on the campaign trail. Turning places like Tarrant County blue is no small feat. He was an infectious, effective campaigner and I haven't seen anything like it in this state.

Frankly, I'd rather see him go for Cornyn's seat than the White House, because I think he'd do more to helping anyone's White House bid by having his ground game activated again in Texas and making sure that money is diverted here. Also, Dems have done a terrible job of focusing on anything but the presidency and that needs to stop.

Re: Thanks for the Recommendation
 

Dysfunctional, colorful and exhilrating, and deeply twisted.

LessinJasper, Alberta

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

I underrated Clinton in 1992 and Obama in 2004 because I didn't realize how good they were at this sort of thing. Being a Senator gets you attention from the political press, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are a good retail politician, and the longer you are in the Senate the less good you have to be, because incumbency protects you and you only have to run every six years.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. It doesn't sound that far off from what I'm saying. If the offense merits the "death" penalty, so be it. But why should a few extra-vocal reps wield the power to make that decision for the entire Party or the accused's constituency? And if that's the case, Dems should put together a distinct ethics committee to make sure the person gets a fair shake.

Yes. We all have opinions. Why should the ones with the loudest megaphones apply their standards?

TM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

I skipped the reply because I don't think he's ever even heard him speak.

TM

Re: Thanks for the Recommendation
 

Snake farm was magic- basically because I hate snakes the most and they were handling every horrible kind there is. I was there the year after tourism really kicked in. The temples were beautiful, but the things that made it special (floating markets as an example) were already stupid tourist sites.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

I feel like you like her, so, at best, you are refusing to listen to what I am saying and, at worst, are intentionally mischaracterizing it.

I am not blaming her. She is welcome to her opinion. She wasn't the only one pushing. I think there was a better way to handle it than to say, "There are multiple accusations of something that falls into the sexual harassment category, off with his head!" Take a fucking breath. Conduct a hearing/investigation, let him defend himself and then make a collective determination on whether he should keep his head.

If you don't think Gillibrand seized on this, at least partially, as a political opportunity for herself, you're not being honest with yourself.

TM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Anne Helen Petersen at Buzzfeed is one of my favorite longform authors, and she did a piece on student debt a few days ago.

It's not the first, or the last, but it is really compelling and does an awesome job at showing how fucked over we have become in thinking that we live in an every-man-for-himself society rather than moving together to invest in the collective good.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Because she was the absolute loudest and most frequent critic and because I remember her doing a round of interviews about it in which she offered the flimsiest of bullshit answers to the questions she wanted to be asked.

If she wanted to be the face of the issue she doesn't get to then turn around and point at everyone else and say, "But they said it too!"

TM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

She was the loudest and strongest proponent for his ouster. Is that her fault? Is it the media's fault? I don't know. What I do know is I did not hear Sanders or Warren as loudly on the issue as I heard her. And I'm not alone, as she is seen as largely responsible for Franken's resignation. I don't believe that where there's smoke there's always fire, but there's a reason this sticks to her and not to Sanders or Warren.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

He didn't have any handlers. He took no PAC money, and he didn't hire any consultants. You can tell by looking at how bad his ads were. (The "'cmon Ted" ads by Linklater were Linklater's alone.) There were a lot of people here begging for him to hire consultants, but he did the whole thing with just a handful of people who were seen pretty much every day on his facebook live feeds. It was one of the most transparent campaigns in recent memory.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Thanks for policing my brand, my brother!

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

this is what I was saying a few days ago. I got yelled at.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Ummm, you're gonna have to show me how what you were saying and what I am saying is the same.

TM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

I went to an early event in January last year and then a few more during the heat of the campaign. I had a selfie taken with him right before I voted for him the first day of early voting. The man NEVER stopped talking to people and shaking hands. It was amazing to watch. And he actually seemed to listen.

Again, Anne Helen Petersen:

My sister, who is an introvert and the last person in the world I'd ever think would do such things, was so taken by the campaign she knocked on over 2000 doors and registered over 100 voters, personally taking 8 to the polls and taking one to the Secretary of State's office and then the county to work out some registration issues.

I only managed to knock on about 100 or so (I was also volunteering for the Texas Voting Rights project), but from what I saw, it was an efficient, well run organization, insofar as predominantly volunteer organization can be efficient. His strategy was to focus on the non-voters, and it almost worked.

Obviously, the last two plus years have motivated a lot of people to not be complacent about elections, and progressives in Texas have been waiting for decades to find someone to rally behind. There have been a few other attempts, but nothing like this.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

Nothing in the reply or since suggests otherwise.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

More than half of his Senate caucus (some of who expressed no opinion because they were on the ethics committee) called for him to resign. As did a nontrivial
Number of his constituents.

When you lose the majority of your colleague (to be fair, in no small pet because your presence hurts them politically) and a bunch of constituents...

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

And you should probably think about who wants it to stick to her and why, because I think you will find they want someone else to be president.

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

And some of them expressed that they rushed to judgment later and wished they hadn't just jumped in. Either way, I'm not sure why you or any of them is resistant to an investigation or letting him have his day at a hearing if the outcome would be the same.

Hahahaha. I can't believe you included this. Stop it.

Yes. You said this in this very post already.

TM

Re: Northam, Warren, Fairfax...
 

https://media.giphy.com/media/oOTTyHRHj0HYY/giphy.gif

But some of them don't want her to be President specifically because of this.

TM