Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 423764)

A former GF was a single mom. She basically started down the same thought-path, though a little earlier (early 30s I think). Then a casual BF got her pregnant, and was in the weird position of "keep the baby" or "get an abortion and wait a few months until I find a donor I like." She went with Plan A, and things turned out fine.

This was not a financially established person. She was an artist, dancer, relying on things like part-time bookkeeping gigs to pay the rent. On the other hand, she was in many ways a very practical person, so while she was never rich and often relied on friends for help I don't think she was ever looking to other people to house her, at least not after she had the kid. That said, she probably lived a gypsy-like life beforehand, at least to an extent.

I would not try to talk your friend out of it. I would try to talk to her about what she's in for, and how if she's going to do this then her focus in the 6 months she's giving herself should be on finding financial and personal stability. She doesn't have to be making a shit-ton of money, but she does need to be in a living situation that allows for a baby and that she has confidence she can maintain.

From your description it doesn't sound like her own business is the path to this sort of financial stability, but I don't know. However, if the means to getting her business really going is her working 15 hours a day (as it is with many start-up folks), then doing that while having a small baby is basically impossible, and doing it while pregnant and 39yo is downright dangerous.

Originally Posted by greatwhitenorthchick (Post 423762)

What do people in Chicago have against giant red dildos?

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 423765)

The old, "there's not enough money to have a kid" bit is fiction. Almost everyone has the money to do it. You just end up going without in other areas of your life by default. That's just how it works.

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 423769)

Big, red, italicized, dildo-shaped 2.

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 423763)

So I get an e-mail from a friend of mine:

She's single, 38 years old, will be 39 in October, owns a development company that isn't quite off the ground yet, and she sort of has been living a gypsy life for the last two years while she tries to launch her business. She's had some success (an article in an upscale magazine last October, very good reception on a home tour in April 2009 to the building she and her former business partner built), but no real financial movement on the new company. I have no doubt that if she gave up on her own business and went to work selling other people's shit, she'd rake in a fortune. She's ridiculously persuasive. At the same time, I'm not convinced that she is particularly good at running her own business. She says she has a lot of leads, but no one has seen anything come of them.

I'm generally not really thrilled by the idea, but I sort of see her point in that given her age, finding, wooing, and catching a mate on a very accelerated time schedule would be difficult at best, and would likely scare the shit out of even the best of her prospects. I've seen at least two of her relationships fall apart in the last few years because of her wanting to move forward as quickly as possible.

On the other hand, holy shit, a kid? She's been solidly relying on friends for the last two years to house her. There is NO stability in her life, and running a company and raising a kid is hard enough with two parents in the mix. I know that I certainly couldn't choose do something like this without a small fortune amassed and an army of domestic help waiting in the wings.

I know generally that our friends who have heard about this think that this is a crazy stupid idea. At the same time, she tends to be a full steam ahead kind of person, and we do want to be supportive if she does go through with it. It's possible that this may be the motivation to actually stabilize her life a little, and maybe she wont scare the genuinely good guys she meets from now on if she's not looking at them as potential sperm donors first and foremost.

Does anyone know any women who have gone forward with a crazy idea like this one? Did it turn out relatively OK? Should I do everything in my power to talk her out of this?

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 423767)

I say this as someone who has been thrown up upon multiple times in the last 24 hours.

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 423767)

Concur with Sidd, and add that a single mom probably needs to gross 3x her childcare costs. Otherwise it makes no sense. Does she have a clear idea of who watches the baby? Because "I'm the owner and have a flexible schedule" don't mean shit.

I say this as someone who has been thrown up upon multiple times in the last 24 hours.

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 423764)

I would not try to talk your friend out of it. I would try to talk to her about what she's in for, and how if she's going to do this then her focus in the 6 months she's giving herself should be on finding financial and personal stability. She doesn't have to be making a shit-ton of money, but she does need to be in a living situation that allows for a baby and that she has confidence she can maintain.

From your description it doesn't sound like her own business is the path to this sort of financial stability, but I don't know. However, if the means to getting her business really going is her working 15 hours a day (as it is with many start-up folks), then doing that while having a small baby is basically impossible, and doing it while pregnant and 39yo is downright dangerous.

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 423765)

I've known women who got knocked up and ended up raising their kids with no support of any kind after the father ran out, so yeah, I guess I do.

I'd stay out of it. If she wants support, give it to her, but be honest. "If this is what you want, go for it. But remember, this won't be easy and there are lots of expenses that come with babies. You think you'll have a place of your own with space for a baby in 6 months? Are you going to try to find a guy who will give you his sperm with the understanding that he won't be a part of your lives? Are you still going to do it if your business doesn't take off and if so, what will you do for money? If your business does take off, don't you think you'll be too busy? Etc."

The old, "there's not enough money to have a kid" bit is fiction. Almost everyone has the money to do it. You just end up going without in other areas of your life by default. That's just how it works.

TM

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 423767)

Concur with Sidd, and add that a single mom probably needs to gross 3x her childcare costs. Otherwise it makes no sense. Does she have a clear idea of who watches the baby? Because "I'm the owner and have a flexible schedule" don't mean shit.

I say this as someone who has been thrown up upon multiple times in the last 24 hours.

Originally Posted by Fugee (Post 423771)

A close friend of a family member did this but with a somewhat more stable financial situation. She asked my family member to be the sperm donor but he couldn't for medical reasons so she went to a sperm bank and did the insemination herself with a turkey baster to save money.

She is a public school teacher and thus doesn't have a ton of money but has been steadily employed. Her parents have a fair amount of money and she is living in a house her parents owned (and presumably deeded to her).

She's a good mom and her daughter has always been really precocious, being around adults so much. And apparently really smart as well. This fall she will be going to the new NYU-Abu Dhabi program on a full scholarship.

ETA: The woman I know did this earlier than 39. And as a reference, my cousin is unexpectedly pregnant at 43 (it took medical intervention for her first two children; she assumed she couldn't get pregnant without it). She's much more exhausted than she was 9 years earlier.

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 423776)

Other thought, less helpful: While I prefer to live in a world where people have the right to do things, that doesn't mean all choices are equally good. There are single moms on this board, some I gather by choice, but all with different paths to that choice. For my part, I believe that having a successful and stable romantic commitment is not a prerequisite to parenthood -- let's not kid ourselves, it never has been -- but it's a training ground, at the least, for the types of self-sacrifice that a parent experiences daily. I think it's good to give up the 50% of your autonomy in an adult relationship before you give up the 100% of autonomy that you give up to be a parent. Singledom to parenthood is zero to 100 at breakneck speed, and not everybody can handle that. (I'm particularly concerned by the implication your friend navigates the world through persuasion. Does she realize those Jedi mind tricks don't work on kids, who are the most irrational creatures yet imagined?)

I don't suggest you raise this with your friend, as it sounds scolding. But I think if she goes through with this that someone needs to look after her mental health for the long term. Parenthood is survivable, but if you don't have an ally in the house, bound to you by sex and mutual affliction, it is hard.

Originally Posted by Fugee (Post 423771)

She asked my family member to be the sperm donor but he couldn't for medical reasons

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 423777)

Now that I have a so-called "smart" phone, does anyone have any good travel applications? I have already downloaded a voice translator and free texting app.

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 423774)

My reply was somewhere along the lines of



I haven't actually talked to her about any of this.



This is where I'm most concerned. It's not that I don't think she can be a superwoman, I just think it's really hard to either one of those things by yourself, much less both at the same time. I think she's stopped doing a lot of the actual homebuilding that she did two years ago, but her job can be quite physical.


I do think it's a bit classist to assume that one needs to be hugely financially successful before having kids. (I struggle with this myself when I think about having my own kids and sooner or later I'll have to recognize that I could be a gazillionaire and still not be "ready." I also have to recognize that there's no "perfect time" either, but those are my own issues.) But I do think that some stability, financial and otherwise, is important for a kid. I also know that this particular kid will likely be very important to me, and I want it to have as good a start as possible.




I think that this is really where she needs to face hard facts. For the last 8 months, she's been living with a friend who has a four year old whose dad ran out on them about 18 months ago. So she has some idea of the single mom struggles, sacrifice, real costs, etc. As far as I know, though, the single mom is financially stable enough to not have to work for a few years, and my friend might be getting a distorted view.



This is nice to hear. I really want my friend to be happy and for her kid to grow up well.

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) (Post 423766)

How did things with casual BF go?