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-   -   Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875)

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-29-2015 01:22 PM
Re: With friends like this....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495146)
Meh. His statement doesn't surprise me. Nor does it particularly agitate me, and much of what he says is cautiously positive about the negotiation efforts.
When we're done with the Iran accord, I think we should integrate all the key points into the Non-Proliferation Agreement, apply them to every signatory, and impose the same sanctions being lifted from Iran on any country that refuses to sign and abide.

The idea that KSA and Turkey will have unlimited refinement potential and no inspections even as signatories ought to scare everyone. And, of course, the refusal to sign by Pakistan and Israel is incredibly destabilizing.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-30-2015 12:21 PM
Re: Damn, that was an easy troll.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 495148)
My last vacation at the local hospital I was paired with an avid fan of Fox News. I spent three days telling him how everything they were reporting was either slanted or outright lies. I looked up other references. I had visitors bring in books. He left as certain that Fox News was the only "patriotic" news service as he was that a glass of prune juice in the morning would get him going in nothing flat. It's like the whole "how to be a Playa" scam or fantasy camps. Tell people what they want to hear and it goes down so much easier.
It has nothing to do with reality. Hence, O'Reilly gets a pass despite being clearly full of shit.

The most strident elements of the Right view reality through a lens approximating that famous Faulkner quote: "The best fiction is far more true than any journalism." The only difference, of course, being Faulkner intended fiction to demonstrate realities which journalism of the time failed to adequately cover. The Right of today wants to rewrite everything it sees to fit a narrative largely opposed to actual reality.

And a lot of them know they're engaging in fantasy and delusional perception. You can slam them with facts and, if cornered - if you refuse to let them go and force them to admit they are engaging in falsehoods, which I have done numerous times - they will concede. But in this concession they will include the following defense: "We need to bend the truth to protect our way of life... It's marketing. We're trying to protect what we see as the essential character of the country."

The movement is more important than the facts. Cross-examining them misses the point. The more you do it - the more you try to punch through the layers of delusion and force the logical circuits of their brains to admit facts debunking their beliefs - the more they'll react like fundamentalists. And among the smarter of them, there is a very logical justification for reveling in unreality. The more people say a thing, the more it is believed. The more it is believed, the more actual decisions in true reality will be based on assumptions informed by these delusions.

"Just think it, say it, and eventually, it will be reality..." The Right lives in a series of Goebbel's "big lies," all in service to the notion reflexivity will drag us back to the perfect '50s culture they seek.

Good luck swaying those minds.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-30-2015 01:53 PM
Experiences > Stuff
 
Most people with their heads screwed on properly have known this for years. But it's nice to see it presented so lucidly, and as an economic and public policy prescription! http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...s+Advances.pdf

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2015 02:29 PM
Re: Damn, that was an easy troll.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 495157)
It has nothing to do with reality. Hence, O'Reilly gets a pass despite being clearly full of shit.

The most strident elements of the Right view reality through a lens approximating that famous Faulkner quote: "The best fiction is far more true than any journalism." The only difference, of course, being Faulkner intended fiction to demonstrate realities which journalism of the time failed to adequately cover. The Right of today wants to rewrite everything it sees to fit a narrative largely opposed to actual reality.

And a lot of them know they're engaging in fantasy and delusional perception. You can slam them with facts and, if cornered - if you refuse to let them go and force them to admit they are engaging in falsehoods, which I have done numerous times - they will concede. But in this concession they will include the following defense: "We need to bend the truth to protect our way of life... It's marketing. We're trying to protect what we see as the essential character of the country."

The movement is more important than the facts. Cross-examining them misses the point. The more you do it - the more you try to punch through the layers of delusion and force the logical circuits of their brains to admit facts debunking their beliefs - the more they'll react like fundamentalists. And among the smarter of them, there is a very logical justification for reveling in unreality. The more people say a thing, the more it is believed. The more it is believed, the more actual decisions in true reality will be based on assumptions informed by these delusions.

"Just think it, say it, and eventually, it will be reality..." The Right lives in a series of Goebbel's "big lies," all in service to the notion reflexivity will drag us back to the perfect '50s culture they seek.

Good luck swaying those minds.
Let's face it, the world needs more Maoist re-education camps.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2015 02:37 PM
Re: Experiences > Stuff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 495158)
Most people with their heads screwed on properly have known this for years. But it's nice to see it presented so lucidly, and as an economic and public policy prescription! http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...s+Advances.pdf
So you're saying Maoist Re-education Camps in a Tropical Location.

Hola Havana!

Tyrone Slothrop 03-30-2015 05:02 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
John Galt wants price supports.

Adder 03-30-2015 06:01 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495166)
The whole premise bothers me. What kind of lazy-ass rentier couldn't figure out how to out how to profit from his investments during five years of bull markets in equities?

Those with money to invest and even the most basic abilities to invest it have done pretty darn well in the low interest rate environment and will do well again when rates start ticking up.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-30-2015 08:57 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
What Due Process Clause?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-31-2015 10:40 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495168)
I wish they'd link court documents in some of those articles. It seems like a lot of journalists citing each other right now.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-31-2015 12:05 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 495169)
I wish they'd link court documents in some of those articles. It seems like a lot of journalists citing each other right now.
If you scroll to the bottom of the page I linked to, you will see the court's opinion and order in the case.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-31-2015 12:33 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Oh dear.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-31-2015 02:26 PM
Re: Or where Hank has rhythm
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495171)
See this goes to my general thesis that the various types of offensive humor - ethnic, racial, gender, what have you - just aren't funny. Those are some of the stupidest, most lame, least funny things I can imagine anyone saying.

Yes, I concede that there are a few exceptions. But my god, those tweets are only funny in a world where Sebby can dance.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 02:36 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495171)
Ehh, he'll be fine, most people are anti-semetic. Jews are the one group you can hate on and survive.

Sidd Finch 03-31-2015 02:56 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495173)
Ehh, he'll be fine, most people are anti-semetic. Jews are the one group you can hate on and survive.

Apparently you didn't read thru to the end. It continues to get worse and worse.

We can debate whether someone can get away with jokes that are bigoted, misogynist, insulting to broad swaths of people, etc. We can even debate whether someone who is being offered a stage as big as the Daily Show has become can get away with it. But here, there isn't a debate to be had, because the jokes are Just Not Funny. God, they are awful. Childish, un-funny, just goddamn bad jokes.

Adder 03-31-2015 03:23 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495171)
There's a lot of breathlessness there to conclude that they should have hired.... Jessica Williams, who has publicly declined.

And for someone who is complaining (perhaps justifiably) about a lack of vetting, that author does not seem to have done much of her own.

I guess whether his three appearances on the show were "awkward" is a matter of opinion (I didn't think so), but surely there is more available about the man than a handful of terrible tweets. Like his appearances on WTF and the Champs. Or on the British TV Show QI, where he "seduced" Stephen Fry.

I've only come across him a handful of times, but I've liked him each time and thought he came across as thoughtful and funny, in particular on the Daily Show.

Obviously, those tweets paint a different picture. Can we write them off as lazy jokes from a young guy? Let's hope so.

If it was up to me, I would have picked Williams too, until she declined. Mandvi would have been good with me. They picked someone else. I'm interested to see how it goes.

Finally, that last tweet, about the middle of America? I thought it was a good joke.

Adder 03-31-2015 03:25 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495173)
Ehh, he'll be fine, most people are anti-semetic. Jews are the one group you can hate on and survive.
There are no Jews in Hollywood, after all.

Adder 03-31-2015 03:33 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495175)
Apparently you didn't read thru to the end. It continues to get worse and worse.

We can debate whether someone can get away with jokes that are bigoted, misogynist, insulting to broad swaths of people, etc. We can even debate whether someone who is being offered a stage as big as the Daily Show has become can get away with it. But here, there isn't a debate to be had, because the jokes are Just Not Funny. God, they are awful. Childish, un-funny, just goddamn bad jokes.
I don't think anyone posting jokes to twitter completely avoids Not Funny, but it's important in which way they are Not Funny, and the level of misogyny seems to be the most troubling part.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 03:34 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 495176)
There's a lot of breathlessness there to conclude that they should have hired.... Jessica Williams, who has publicly declined.

And for someone who is complaining (perhaps justifiably) about a lack of vetting, that author does not seem to have done much of her own.

I guess whether his three appearances on the show were "awkward" is a matter of opinion (I didn't think so), but surely there is more available about the man than a handful of terrible tweets. Like his appearances on WTF and the Champs. Or on the British TV Show QI, where he "seduced" Stephen Fry.

I've only come across him a handful of times, but I've liked him each time and thought he came across as thoughtful and funny, in particular on the Daily Show.

Obviously, those tweets paint a different picture. Can we write them off as lazy jokes from a young guy? Let's hope so.

If it was up to me, I would have picked Williams too, until she declined. Mandvi would have been good with me. They picked someone else. I'm interested to see how it goes.

Finally, that last tweet, about the middle of America? I thought it was a good joke.
translation: hating on Jews is fine by me!

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 03:38 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495175)
Apparently you didn't read thru to the end. It continues to get worse and worse.

We can debate whether someone can get away with jokes that are bigoted, misogynist, insulting to broad swaths of people, etc. We can even debate whether someone who is being offered a stage as big as the Daily Show has become can get away with it. But here, there isn't a debate to be had, because the jokes are Just Not Funny. God, they are awful. Childish, un-funny, just goddamn bad jokes.
lots of people made a mistake when they got to Twitter- they no longer filtered their "jokes" and there was unlimited "stage time." The result was tons of bad stuff, and some reputations ruined/downgraded Howard Stern, who is always on, was horrible on twitter; for me it was hurting how I heard the radio show, even though that was still fine. But he eventually got the medium and exercised as much filtering as on the show.

Adder 03-31-2015 03:44 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495179)
translation: hating on Jews is fine by me!
One of the "jokes" about Jews is also a joke about women, so I care about that. Another is that Jews control the music industry. Meh. The third is actually a joke about Nazis.

Maybe its a personal flaw, but the Jewish "jokes" are the least offensive of the bunch to me.

Not that it means anything, but Marc Maron is most definitely a Jew, as is Moshe Kasher, co-host of the other linked podcast (he talks about religion at length on his episode of the Dork Forest).

Anyway, I guess the question is whether you think some offensive tweets are disqualifying in comedy. I suspect few comedians would agree and hopefully we won't be seeing this level of quality on the Daily Show.

Adder 03-31-2015 03:47 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495180)
lots of people made a mistake when they got to Twitter- they no longer filtered their "jokes" and there was unlimited "stage time." The result was tons of bad stuff, and some reputations ruined/downgraded Howard Stern, who is always on, was horrible on twitter; for me it was hurting how I heard the radio show, even though that was still fine. But he eventually got the medium and exercised as much filtering as on the show.
Translation: I don't care about misogynistic* jokes.


* yeah, I know, I haven't listened to Stern in more than a decade and it's supposed to be better than it used to be.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-31-2015 03:52 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495180)
lots of people made a mistake when they got to Twitter- they no longer filtered their "jokes" and there was unlimited "stage time." The result was tons of bad stuff, and some reputations ruined/downgraded Howard Stern, who is always on, was horrible on twitter; for me it was hurting how I heard the radio show, even though that was still fine. But he eventually got the medium and exercised as much filtering as on the show.
I'm not sure I'm completely following your reasoning here, but is this a sort of half-defense of him based on him really only being about as bad as Howard Stern?

Man that is cold.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 03:56 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 495182)
Translation: I don't care about misogynistic* jokes.


* yeah, I know, I haven't listened to Stern in more than a decade and it's supposed to be better than it used to be.
You think saying fat girls get hit on by drunk guys is hate? It's a very stupid "joke" but hardly worth mentioning or being bothered by. I don't know who Adele is, so I don't get that one. I suppose the punching one is bad. But you need to reread the Jew hate ones- I dont know how you see one as being about Nazis.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 03:57 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 495183)
I'm not sure I'm completely following your reasoning here, but is this a sort of half-defense of him based on him really only being about as bad as Howard Stern?

Man that is cold.
The Jew jokes bug me. The quality of the jokes not so much. It doesn't say anything about whether he may be funny on TV.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-31-2015 04:14 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495185)
The Jew jokes bug me. The quality of the jokes not so much. It doesn't say anything about whether he may be funny on TV.
People who think unfunny Jew jokes are funny usually are actual anti-semites.

Same can be said about the shiksa jokes and misogyny, of course.

Adder 03-31-2015 04:49 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495184)
You think saying fat girls get hit on by drunk guys is hate?
That "fat girls" are only attractive to drunk people, yes.

Quote:
I don't know who Adele is, so I don't get that one.
She's a singer. The "joke" is that the fat lady has sung.

Quote:
But you need to reread the Jew hate ones- I dont know how you see one as being about Nazis.
The tweet reads: "And lower Jew tolerance RT @UnrealFacts: Blue-eyed people have a higher alcohol tolerance"

The joke is that blue-eyed people dislike Jews. Who is known having (or preferring) blue-eyes and disliking Jews?

Tyrone Slothrop 03-31-2015 04:49 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495184)
You think saying fat girls get hit on by drunk guys is hate?
That joke is mocking the fat girls for imagining that they could be seen as attractive -- it's awful.

And Adele is large, so that joke turned on it being over when the fat lady sings -- hardly better, but not quite as cruel.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 04:57 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495193)
That joke is mocking the fat girls for imagining that they could be seen as attractive --
I got the "joke" but it is such a hackneyed cliche that posting it is pathetic, not horrible.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-31-2015 04:59 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495194)
I got the "joke" but it is such a hackneyed cliche that posting it is pathetic, not horrible.
The fact that it's hackneyed makes it easy to miss how mean-spirited it is.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 05:00 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495195)
The fact that it's hackneyed makes it easy to miss how mean-spirited it is.
no mas

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-31-2015 05:06 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495195)
The fact that it's hackneyed makes it easy to miss how mean-spirited it is.
Finally. An explanation of Hank's sense of humor.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 05:08 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 495197)
Finally. An explanation of Hank's sense of humor.
And the focus on a run of the mill fat joke proves the guy lives despite truly hateful Jew jokes. Sad.

Adder 03-31-2015 05:26 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495198)
And the focus on a run of the mill fat joke proves the guy lives despite truly grateful Jew jokes. Sad.
Both "Jews control the music industry" and "Jewish women don't suck dick" are the kinds of jokes someone might hear a Jewish comic say (certainly Mr. Kasher comes to mind) and incorrectly think those jokes are fair game.

"Fat girls are pathetic and only attractive to drunks," "Adele's fat and singing so it must be over, " "it's funny to think about using an upper cut on that evil bitch who doesn't love you back" and "prostitutes are just like fast food; look at my lame pun" are the kinds of things you'd hear around a stereotypical frat house and only repeat if you didn't realize that there are women in the world too (all of whom have been criticized for the weight at some point in their lives).

The first demonstrates a lack of understanding of the importance of context. The second demonstrates a disregard or failure to understand the cruelty inherent in the joke.

And yeah, obviously each of those paraphrases is imperfect.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 05:32 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 495199)
Both "Jews control the music industry" and "Jewish women don't suck dick" are the kinds of jokes someone might hear a Jewish comic say (certainly Mr. Kasher comes to mind) and incorrectly think those jokes are fair game.

"Fat girls are pathetic and only attractive to drunks," "Adele's fat and singing so it must be over, " "it's funny to think about using an upper cut on that evil bitch who doesn't love you back" and "prostitutes are just like fast food; look at my lame pun" are the kinds of things you'd hear around a stereotypical frat house and only repeat if you didn't realize that there are women in the world too (all of whom have been criticized for the weight at some point in their lives).

The first demonstrates a lack of understanding of the importance of context. The second demonstrates a disregard or failure to understand the cruelty inherent in the joke.

And yeah, obviously each of those paraphrases is imperfect.
I know you (and ty) don't see that you are injecting your own issues and dismissing how awful Jew jokes are, but you are. Anyway I am done here.

Adder 03-31-2015 05:39 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495200)
I know you (and ty) don't see that you are injecting your own issues
Are you calling me fat?

ThurgreedMarshall 03-31-2015 05:51 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495193)
That joke is mocking the fat girls for imagining that they could be seen as attractive -- it's awful.

And Adele is large, so that joke turned on it being over when the fat lady sings -- hardly better, but not quite as cruel.
These jokes don't bother me. He's a fucking comedian. Comedians make jokes about fat people.

The Jew jokes (and the willingness to go back to that well) are troubling.

The uppercut joke is just stupid.

The point of the joke has to be the stereotype. Using stereotypes to make jokes is a different animal. It is very difficult to do in a one-off situation like Twitter.

His stand-up special started off really promising. He had a unique perspective on the world and the US given his upbringing in South Africa and his mixed-race status. But he ran out of material pretty quickly and ended up just doing stereotypical impressions of American blacks (no one specific).

He has talent, and I imagine Stewart's writers are all being paid huge amounts to stay on and write for this guy. But if Stewart's production company hands the show off to him (and why would it?), it ain't gonna be pretty.

Here's his response: http://www.salon.com/2015/03/31/trev..._my_character/

TM

Tyrone Slothrop 03-31-2015 06:45 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495198)
And the focus on a run of the mill fat joke proves the guy lives despite truly hateful Jew jokes. Sad.
Based on the limited sample size provided, he certainly seems more obsessed with Jews than fats. Which is a little odd, coming from South Africa. Anyway, not sure what you and I are disagreeing about, if anything. eta: Have you read the Ishiguro yet? Is it good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 495202)
These jokes don't bother me. He's a fucking comedian.
His stuff is just so bad, though. Lame.

Quote:
Comedians make jokes about fat people.
I suppose it's possible to do that in a way that is creative and funny, but if so, he hasn't found it.

Hank Chinaski 03-31-2015 11:11 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495203)
Based on the limited sample size provided, he certainly seems more obsessed with Jews than fats. Which is a little odd, coming from South Africa. Anyway, not sure what you and I are disagreeing about, if anything. eta: Have you read the Ishiguro yet? Is it good?
I think you look at the world the third closest to me of socks here. T is first then Atticus then u. We aren't disagreeing I just don't think you can stop fat girl jokes. Ishiguro sits on my night stand. I will jump in soon.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 04-01-2015 09:13 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 495202)
"I've evolved" is kind of lame, too. But funnier than much of his stuff.

ThurgreedMarshall 04-01-2015 10:42 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 495203)
His stuff is just so bad, though. Lame.

I suppose it's possible to do that in a way that is creative and funny, but if so, he hasn't found it.
Good fucking grief. How the hell do you know?

Are you truly basing your opinion of his entire career on the 4 jokes picked because of their offensiveness? Or have you been watching his stuff all this time? Do you think any comedian (Stewart included) didn't have crappy jokes like this throughout their career?

I think it's insane that people judge this guy on a handful of jokes they don't like without listing the tons of jokes they probably would.

TM


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