Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 492260)

We all have money stresses - wouldn't you rather be worried about your bills while driving home, listening to the Angry Grrl channel on Sirius sitting on a seat made of fine Corinthian leather, in your leased Benz (as opposed to the Clear Channel commercial-filled AOR FM radio station while stuck in traffic with no A/C in a paid off Dodge Dart from the Bush I administration)?

Yeah. Me too.

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 492260)

Oh, I agree that the working class is becoming the working poor. Marketplace, IIRC, did a great series on this phenomenon. But the gradual disappearance of the working class/lower middle class isn't what I was talking about.

My point was that Sebby is nuts to say that Joe Six-Pack's view of the Typical Lawyer of the Fashion Tips Board as "rich" is wrong, and to (based upon my own working class relatives in the Ancestral Homeland), assure him that (a) they're as overextended as we all are, only our houses, cars, and booze/food is much nicer; and (2) my cousin Mark (whose bungalow and 2004 Jeep Liberty are both paid off) would be delighted to trade it for an underwater McMansion and a leased E-Class if he had the income to (barely) service said expenses.

We all have money stresses - wouldn't you rather be worried about your bills while driving home, listening to the Angry Grrl channel on Sirius sitting on a seat made of fine Corinthian leather, in your leased Benz (as opposed to the Clear Channel commercial-filled AOR FM radio station while stuck in traffic with no A/C in a paid off Dodge Dart from the Bush I administration)?

Yeah. Me too.

Originally Posted by taxwonk (Post 492259)

An awful lot of working class people are making about $10-$12 an hour right now, as 1099 contractors and their hours kept well below the threshold for getting them in ERISA trouble. $420 a week doesn't buy much. Joe's kids might still be able to play little league through the park district or Boys and Girls Clubs of America (an incredible organization if anyone needs a last-minute charitable contribution deduction).

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 492260)

Oh, I agree that the working class is becoming the working poor. Marketplace, IIRC, did a great series on this phenomenon. But the gradual disappearance of the working class/lower middle class isn't what I was talking about.

My point was that Sebby is nuts to say that Joe Six-Pack's view of the Typical Lawyer of the Fashion Tips Board as "rich" is wrong, and to (based upon my own working class relatives in the Ancestral Homeland), assure him that (a) they're as overextended as we all are, only our houses, cars, and booze/food is much nicer; and (2) my cousin Mark (whose bungalow and 2004 Jeep Liberty are both paid off) would be delighted to trade it for an underwater McMansion and a leased E-Class if he had the income to (barely) service said expenses.

We all have money stresses - wouldn't you rather be worried about your bills while driving home, listening to the Angry Grrl channel on Sirius sitting on a seat made of fine Corinthian leather, in your leased Benz (as opposed to the Clear Channel commercial-filled AOR FM radio station while stuck in traffic with no A/C in a paid off Dodge Dart from the Bush I administration)?

Yeah. Me too.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 492248)

They've actually done studies on this. As people get lots of money, by whatever means, a large percentage start believing they are better than everyone else, and that's why they have the money. This breeds a survival of the fittest attitude they use as cover to assuage guilt at not helping others, or as justification for screwing others.

I know you've seen this shit in finance people a lot. Nothing pisses off rich entitled greedheads more than being told part of why they're where they are is luck. Fucks up their whole life narrative. Thankfully, this only applies to about half of rich people.



The poor have empathy the rich either lost or never had the need to develop. The rich are also addicted to comfort. They aren't standing for anybody unless you make them.

It's not happenstance the rich are often less religious and less community oriented. They don't need those social or spiritual currencies anymore. They can buy what they need, and if you've got money, you don't need the comfort of hoping there's a better afterlife somewhere. Shit's good now. Much as I'm an agnostic leaning atheist and largely libertarian sort, I have to admit - this creates callous people.



I think the appropriate course is to use every means at your disposal to give your kid advantages. But draw the line at supporting policies that actively screw other kids out of them. It's okay to play a good hand for all its worth. It's not okay to actively work to rig up the game to shut out all the players with less means.

It's how to do that, and where to draw that line, where shit gets tricky.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 492262)

Not Bob, I have not had you made out for a Benz driver. Take the American-made car over the prick-mobile any day.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 492265)

this could be post of the year. Well put.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 492262)

Not Bob, I have not had you made out for a Benz driver. Take the American-made car over the prick-mobile any day.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 492265)

this could be post of the year. Well put.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 492268)

All the Benz SUVs and the new C Class are built in Sweet Home Alabama.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 492266)

Actually, given the financing on them is crazy low for some reason, used Benzes can be had at terms cheaper than a lot of good Japanese cars. (But not the big S Class fuckers that douchey, over leveraged lawyers fancy.)

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 492271)

See, this is very useful. The suggestion that it's actually a subclass of Benz's and not all of them that attract the road-douches is interesting. I'm going to have to see if this is borne out in practice.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 492264)

Quoting William Wallace (or Rage Against the Machine), it's all about the "freedom."

A fine Corinthian lined cage where you could have saved and become independent is still a cage. And one of your own making, which makes the effort expended in paying for it all the more pointless.

I like nice stuff. But as I age, I'm beginning to think freedom, and simplicity of existence, are the only true luxuries in life.

Your cousin might be the winner at the table who just doesn't know it... Probably because he's being bombarded with bullshit advertising and the idiot narratives of strivers around him telling him otherwise.

(Then again, if one should so choose, with money or w/o, he can always walk away. He can tell his boss to fuck himself and go tend bar in the Caribbean, or become a ski instructor out west. It can be done. You just have to see through the bullshit around us telling us we must stay on the merry-go-round of working>consuming>working more>consuming more.)

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 492273)

When we retire from this rat race, you're welcome to join me living in simplicity and without luxuries at my little mountain ashram. I'm looking at a couple mountains on some nice Greek Islands as possible locations. The novices will take care of the cooking and cleaning.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 492270)

Hadn't known that. Union shop?