Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

We know how to convert the homophobes here.

Our formerly rabidly anti-marriage equality lieutenant governor, once the darling of the local fundies, will be presiding at the gay wedding of our Senate President next month.

Re: Or where Hank has rhythm
 

This joke is never not funny because it can't be made as a joke without full recognition of how stupid it is to say.

I am not offended. I was confused when you said, "So.... his culture and background may have influenced his comedy, in a way that may or may not translate well to the Daily Show? Huh, who would have guessed?" Considering the fact that I was pointing out his background in that very same post and your random conversation with Sebby about how his fat jokes, Jewish jokes, and violence against women jokes may go over well with a South African crowd* because they may have a different sense of humor, it sure seemed like you were being a dick.

We are clearly talking past each other, because you seem to be repeating my exact thoughts about your posts back to me.

Kumbafuckinya, homie.

TM

*Yeah. Maybe this wasn't your point, but given how this conversation evolved, I plead extreme confusion.

Re: Hey, Noah, got a punchline for this one?
 

I am so looking forward to the readout from this call: http://news.yahoo.com/obama-says-call-netanyahu-iran-deal

Re: Or where Hank has rhythm
 

Kumbaya yourself, bitch.

Seriously, and without trying to argue -- I think it certain that fat jokes or Jewish jokes or even violence against women jokes go over better in some places than they do in 2015 in the US.

Why is this certain? Because we can all think of jokes that went over a lot better 20 or 30 or 40 years ago, that would not go over very well today. For many reasons -- because people are more sensible, sensitive, or just jaded -- depending on the joke or the audience.

BUT -- Is South Africa of 2015 a place where fat/Jewish/violence against women jokes go over better than here? I have no fucking clue. I was trying to get past the tweets "issue" to talk about how his different background may have affected his comedy. Will that make TDS better or worse? I don't know, (and the answer probably depends on who you ask and on what day). But it will certainly make the show different -- which is a good thing, because having someone try to do a Jon Stewart imitation would suck, and just giving the show to one of the people who occasionally hosted it would also, I think, make for a sucky show.

A man born and raised in South Africa, of mixed race, who was 11 when Mandela came to power, is necessarily going to bring some things to the table that were not there before. That will include good things (different perspective, like some of his videos show), and some risky things (less "sensitivity" to certain boundaries, as others of his videos show -- but which were funny and worth that risk, IMO). So, it'll be interesting.



Plus, he can do that cool click when he says Xhosa. I've been to South Africa, and also Zimbabwe, and no matter how much I tried I couldn't get that right. It's really cool when someone does it right -- it sort of echoes even as they get to the next word or two.

Re: Or where Hank has rhythm
 

Agreed.

But someone is going to need to tell him that if he tries to make The Daily Show too international, he's going to fail. Even the informed liberals in this country don't really give a shit about anyplace else in the world (although John Oliver has done a great job informing people despite that fact). Keep going after the crazy ass conservatives in this country.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opi...n_kenya_attack

Why? I understand why we get blown up. I understand why cartoonists get murdered. I do not get why it advances radical Islam to kill people in a college in Kenya.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Really, really disturbing and depressing.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Probably preaching to the choir here, but I really don't get why other people (and especially the media) are so quick to accept the notion that conservatives' religion somehow compels them to tell other people how to act. Maybe they should read Matthew, Chapter 7.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Because Leviticus said "What Matthew said, but not for faggots"?

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Pro tip: Old Testament came first.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

when you have picked jobs has salary been a factor?

"For it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Luke 18:25

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Kenya has deployed troops against them in Somalia. They're losing, but slowly, and unable to fight the troops, so they terrorize a place that has a lot of Christian civilians.

They had students call their families to tell them they were about to die because of Uhuru Kenyatta, the president, and then they shot them. Awful, awful, awful.

The real question is who gets to deal with the mess known as Somalia. Today, it's mostly been left for Somalia's neighbors like Kenya and Ethiopia.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

The Disciples of Christ was one of the first groups to yank a convention from Indiana. Those are Christians. To the conservative squawk-box, though, those of us who find the bigotry unchristian aren't true Christians. As a devout Catholic, I have a lot more in common with some of the non-fundies of other faiths I know than the Assholes for Christ faction that Indiana's RFSA represents.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Showing, once again, how few shits I give about what the Bible says.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

You and Mike Pence both.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I hope this helps you feel better about that Cadillac tax.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Good. It's important to find common ground with everyone, if at all possible. Slave and I both like scotch, steaks, Vegas, and naked women, typically all at the same time. Hank and I both like Hank's wife. Kumbayah.



Query: Would it be possible to find a Muslim restaurant or café owner in a state with a RFRA like the one Indiana passed, who would announce that he would no longer provide service to unveiled women or a woman seated with a man not her husband? That would be interesting.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I think most Muslim-Americans are so busy proving they're nothing like the stereotypes that this isn't going to happen, but maybe there's a no-go zone somewhere in Detroit or Minnesota where Hank or Adder could find someone. If they go there.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

This is going to sound more abrasive than I mean it -- sorry -- but I don't think that would be all that interesting. Muslim restauranteurs in this country must be very clear that they are in the distinct minority. I bet there are places with essentially that policy, but there's no reason for them to make an announcement because non-Muslims aren't going there anyway. The Christians who are pushing these new versions of RFRA have always enjoyed the sense that they are the majority and have a relative status -- privilege, but they wouldn't call it that -- that is now being taken away. It's not the abstract principle that is important to anyone here -- it's what's happening to different people's social status.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

So you think there are no-go zones?

I just had lunch now at a place where there are a lot of veiled women, and usually even a table of women in hijabs. The proprietors go out of their way to welcome non-Middle Eastern people. I think that is true of a lot of groups who are trying to make their way as relatively recent immigrants. Next time you're in New York during Ramadan, head for the Yemen Cafe, as hard-core a middle eastern place as they come, sometime after the fast breaks, and see how the welcome is.

As opposed to places I've been in Southern Indiana where they've looked at me real strange just for darkening their door.

Of course, it is a lot easier to understand why I wandered into my Lebanese place for their batata harra than why I went into a South Indiana diner for white bread with processed turkey and canned gravy on it.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I used to live on the Orange line of the DC metro in a very Asian neighborhood in Arlington. There was a korean restaurant that was open 24 hours. we went there alot during normal hours. One night I woke up hungry at 3 AM and went there. It was 100% Korean customers. I sat at a table and was ignored for a while. eventually I left. The crowd cheered as I walked. In short, I'm sure what your asking about happens de facto. It probably happens in glatt kosher restaurants too (think of the knucleheads who won't sit next to a strange woman on an airplane)- but would a restaurant announce the policy? Ty may be right, but on the otherhand it may be a way to advertise how very specially they follow Koran/torah.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Probably very few, because it's hard enough to make money running a restaurant even without announcing that you don't want to serve the vast majority of the dining public.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Funniest incident like this I experience was a kosher deli in the catskills where we were welcomed and treated very hospitably - until they learned my sister was Reconstructionist.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Places non-Muslims can't go? No. Places non-Muslims generally don't go? Probably.

There are a few storefronts - coffee shop, phone shop, not sure what else - on Cedar Avenue that are probably primarily patronized by the local Somali community, but even they probably get the occasional stop in from a hipster that's in the area for one or more of the local dive bars.

I'm not so sure that Karmel Square gets any non-Somali customers, but maybe I'll have to drop in some time to check it out.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

It doesn't sound abrasive, but I wonder where you live that you never go into an establishment owned by Muslims.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

One of the things that I loved from the moment I moved to SF was how little of this sort of conduct I saw. I have been in restaurants, bars, stores where I was the only (except, possibly, for the person with me if I wasn't alone) straight person, non-Muslim, non-Latino, non-Asian, non-black person. I have not felt unwelcome. Give respect, get respect. My experience in other places, particularly east coast cities, has not been as good in this regard.

I recognize, of course, that even the negative experiences I've had in this regard are nothing compared to what, say, a black man experiences walking into a white crowd in many places. Here, too, what I see outside SF has been much worse. Two years ago I was in NYC for a trial, and when we went out with a paralegal from local counsel's office -- "we" being me and three paralegals from my office (one white, one Asian, one Latino) -- this woman, in front of people she had met that day and in a work capacity -- said "nigger" at least three times, called the Latino guy "hood-boy," talked about "getting some Mexicans" to do grunt work, and repeatedly marveled that the Asian woman (who grew up in Hong Kong) had a British-sounding accent.

Others' mileage may vary, but my own anecdotal experience has been pretty consistent here. I'm sure people have cheered when I left a room but it wasn't because of my race.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

You caught his point that's he'd frequented the restaurant during regular hours? That is the key factor here: they KNEW him.

I've been in unwelcoming spots before. I was once refused service at the Ritz. Despite growing up in white, rural America, there are parts of white, rural America that really just don't tom cotton to my kind (I know - y'all are shocked!). I have been yelled at by a black guy on the south side of Chicago who told me that he knew about white boys like me (I had on a Jesse Jackson button and was attending an event there) and I wasn't going to get his wimin and he'd cut me if I tried.

But the unwelcoming folks are most often self-declared real mercins than immigrants or racial minorities. And I expect they're even less welcoming to immigrants and minorities.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Sorry, don't follow you.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I don't understand why bees sting. I just wipe the nest out.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Sidd, in case you missed it, Mulsims have noticed Indiana's new religious freedom. Think they can find a pizza place willing to cater polygamous weddings, in the name of Freedom!

Or maybe put a minaret next to a certain pizza shop calling the faithful to prayers? (zoning hypo for Atticus!)

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

In case you all misunderstood, what I was looking forward to was watching Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz deal with this sort of thing. Because, you know, freedom and Ayn Rand and the Baby Jesus maybe didn't work with this sort of thing.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Yeah, Bush and Cruz dealing with it may be amusing, but the more I think about it the more I really want to see Indiana fundies living side by side with calls to prayer and polygamy, because it will make the world a better place.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Good to see Mitt Romney's retirement going so well. I trust someone told him that picking Duke to win dooms any chance of a Nixonian come-back tour?

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Nixon went to Duke.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

So Obama has claimed the idea that engaging in business with countries as a way to transform them rather than using sanctions or the military for his own and labeled it the Obama Doctrine, and the neoconservatives are pissed.

Why don't republicans believe in the transformative power of capitalism? When did republicans come to hate capitalism?

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Maybe Republicans don't believe in the transformative power of capitalism, but rather in rich people, and where a country has too many poor people and not enough rich people, bombing will help restore a more favorable balance.

Or not. Just a thought.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Much as I support Obama's efforts in Iran, this exchange is just echo-chamber b.s.

I'll leave aside the "bomb the poor" silliness. Instead, I would guess that both you and GGG have supported sanctions, versus the transformative power of a business relationship, in certain instances, in particular instances -- especially with respect to apartheid South Africa. So you and I could be accused of the same flip-flop as the GOP is engaging in, by supporting that sort of engagement with respect to Iran (and Cuba).

So, why? What makes these cases different?

For Cuba, it's that sanctions failed, the country poses no threat, and there is a real opportunity for constructive engagement through business and capitalism, because they might benefit the Cuban people broadly (and there's the leadership-transition issue).

For Iran, it's different. Sanctions actually worked there, and brought the regime to a point of wanting to make concessions. Just because sanctions have worked, doesn't mean that more sanctions is the right call; instead, we should reap the benefit here. If this deal closes, Iran will be further away from acquiring nukes than it is now (or was 8 years ago), and a verification regime will be in place. But the regime's power is such that I doubt we'll see a broad beneficial effect to capitalist engagement.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

You know, there's a difference between a troll and an echo chamber.

Russia is a current hot-button sanctions issue, too. But the drop in oil prices may well be more effective than the sanctions. The most successful case of sanctions was indeed probably South Africa, but let's never kid ourselves into thinking sanctions alone would have done much.

I think sanctions (and boycotts) can be useful in the short term, but they have diminishing returns over time and if near-permanent can become counterproductive (see, Cuba).

Obama upped the sanctions on Iran and now is harvesting the rewards from taking them off. This is good diplomacy, using them where they work but relying on other levers for permanent gains.

I think encouraging the growth of Iranian capitalism can be huge and deeply transformative for Iran. But by capitalism I don't mean oil trading; I mean the same sort of thing that is going on in India with the help of the Indian diaspora can go on in Iran with the help of the Iranian diaspora. Can't wait to do some Iranian deals. And I know some Iranians who can't wait either.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Fair point.


I agree that sanctions vs. Russia are not particularly meaningful. Disagree with respect to South Africa. It was the only real lever that we had, and it was effective from everything I've read and discussed. Though the oil embargo was more effective. What do you think caused white South Africans to turn the corner?



Yup. And on Cuba, sanctions policy was essentially useless and counterproductive for decades -- certainly since the fall of the USSR and probably before. Glad Obama had the balls to do what several other presidents should have done.



I hope you are right and I am wrong on this. I don't see the Ayatollahs loosening up. I also don't see any more Ahmedinejads being elected, the electorate generally shifting to more mainstream and rational candidates and that shift being helped by true capitalism -- BUT I fear the reaction to this will be more repression by the Ayatollahs.

Maybe they'll go for a variant on China's system -- open economy, closed (and much more religious) political system -- but I doubt it. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Actually, my understanding is that they are hurting the Russian economy fairly severely. But they are still secondary to the hit it is taking from the oil slide - we have the benefit of getting to kick them when they're down. As they recover, they'll be able to develop alternative suppliers for most things (e.g., China).

My point was simply that the sanctions are about number five or six on the list of clusterfucks Putin has to deal with.

Here, again, I think sanctions had their impact, but the real victory goes to the ANC and Mandela, who got change by bringing pressure every way you can, from sanctions to terrorism, on the government.

There is a large and overwhelmingly optimistic Iranian ex-pat community that seems pretty confident of this. That's my barometer. They know better than we do. One rather humorous metric -- the relief of the ban on women attending certain sporting events was just loosened, but if you look at pictures of Iranian sporting events, women have been showing up for a while.

http://iransportspress.com/wp-conten...anian-fans.jpg