Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

2. But watch Warren. I still say she's got legs and will be at Biden's heels.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I'm fucked? I'm just a guy watching the wheels go round and round.

I gave up expecting much from politics long ago. But it's interesting as all hell. You should have a more circumspect view of this stuff.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I really don't. I just think a person who voted for Stein, but then says, "geezzz all these Trump voters must not give a fuck about non-white people" is sort of missing the point. If em said, "I realize I might be helping to elect Trump, but the 3rd party thing was too important- it saddens me that non-white people would be getting fucked- but the third party things overcomes that sadness," god bless. But don't say you hate Trump voters because they are about non-white people getting fucked, in the same paragraph you tell us you voted for Jill- I'm sorry, but getting to that calculations means in almost all cases "I can do this cuz I ain't one of the ones getting fucked." and for the last time I ain't talking about YOU.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Agreed. If you voted Stein, you prioritized something else above non-white people. Perhaps you did it unwittingly, or maybe you didn't even consider the impact of Trump on non-whites. But I'd say that's still prioritizing what you want above all else, and the proof of that is the fact that you didn't even consider the other priorities you were putting below yours.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

To beat Trump, a Democrat is going to need to excite voters to turn them out. Biden excites nobody. I like him, but he is the antithesis of exciting. His strategy is to bore everyone and hope that only old people vote in the primaries.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Though she is my 1st love, she will never win.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

You couldn't be more wrong. To beat Trump, a democrat needs to not suck, plain and simple.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

what is craziest to me is that I was the only one who predicted what would happen in 2016, and why. And all of you wrongoes just keep posting your “opinions” when you should just be asking me. SMH

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

So what to do next time?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

To start every one of you should send me $10k now so I can get it to where it will help.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Enjoy your money. https://tenor.com/view/trump-hitler-...cs-gif-9912996

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

As a presidential candidate, Biden sucks.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I thought he’d drop out after the debate, but Icky’s man is on the cover of the NYT magazine.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I think Icky is looking at the remainder of the field and rationally concluding Biden has the best chance by a very wide margin.

Harris = Hillary II. Corporate candidate. Turns off populists. Can't win Blue Wall.
Bernie = Tired iron.
Warren = I think she has a chance, which, given my predictions in the past means she has no chance.
Pete = He's running for 2024 or 2028. I think the guy could be President in the next decade or so. He checks all the right boxes and is really impressive. But too green for now. Perhaps a VP.

I have to agree with Icky that, as a matter of simple math, Biden appears at least 50% more likely than any of these contenders to win the presidency.

Also, Biden is the only big tent of bunch. He connects with working class white populists (Blue Wall), has the black vote pretty sewn up from what I've read (pragmatists), and placates the corporatists.

(Progressives don't count in this election.* The places where you'll find them, other than on Twitter, are already blue to their core. They're the left equivalent of Trump nation. The two cancel out each other.)
_______
* ETA: People call Warren a progressive. But she can connect with populists and working class voters in a manner progressives cannot. If you've heard her speak about what it's like to be poor and indebted, you've heard a person who knows the story every small business owner or individual meeting with a loan workout or bankruptcy lawyer is telling. She's real. There's a true authenticity there. When she says she wants to impeach Trump she means it. It's not just a political opportunity, or a soundbite or plank she's been told to offer. Warren appears to have a very strong and fixed sense of right and wrong, and of fairness, that appeals to common voters. So, I don't view her as a progressive at all. I'd call her platform an appeal to fairness.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

If the election were held today, maybe so. But the election will be held late next year.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I get that assumption 6 months ago, but not any more. Biden, personally, and his team, reacted to the last three years like the only change needed was to not be Hillary. They're out of touch.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

You still do not understand the concept of privilege.

And then criminally obstructed justice into an investigation into foreign interference into it and done nothing to prevent future interference.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Fixed it for you.

Yup

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Actually, I do. And having finished almost all of that book, I've developed the view that your understanding of privilege is silly and incoherent in comparison to DiAngelo's.

Halfway through, at the same time she was changing my mind on some issues, this thought became inescapable: If only this lucid person was delivering this message on TV, online, exclusively, instead of it being mangled by whiffle intellects like Adder. Yes, I actually considered you specifically.

Russia did not change any vote by hacking into a system. It tried, but it didn't succeed. It acquired votes for Trump by a campaign of disinformation. Which is called "campaigning." Half the people running right now are offering disinformation. It's not a crime to bullshit voters. In fact, it's been standard operating procedure for a couple hundred years.

Nor is it a crime to fail to prevent future interference. You may not like that, I may not like that, but that's just a nihilist in a nihilist's game rationally playing his hand. I see little difference between that and Clinton's racist shenanigans in the South against Obama, or Bush's vile xenophobic mailings about McCain's adopted children. Kennedy fixed votes in Chicago, and some Democratic wards in Philly still today show over 90% turnout. Reagan used a racist dog whistle when he started his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi. Nixon had the Southern Strategy, and Bush I had Willie Horton. Bill Clinton had "super-predators" and executed a mentally handicapped man to look "tough on crime" while campaigning.

One can credibly argue that turning a blind eye to foreign influence is just par for a long course of odious behavior. If past politicians had the capacity to use it, both D and R, they'd have done so. They'd just have been a hell of a lot smarter about it than His Orangeness.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Lunchbox Joe can play the everyman. You can spot Harris as a corporate cipher ten miles away.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

It is early, and following Buffet's rule, "Thou shalt not predict the future." But... Who else do you see emerging as: (1) a serious contender to Biden; (2) who can actually win a general?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Enjoy Trump. I’d say 4 more years but if he wins again gonna need to learn Russian.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

They are right almost. To win one needs to not be Hillary. And while a woman would be my first choice in every plausible scenario, a woman will not beat Trump.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Read it again.

It is a crime to obstruct justice. Having actively obstructed the investigation, none of us know what might have been revealed without the obstruction.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Interestingly, if you look at where Dems are gaining ground these days, Biden doesn't fit the demographics. Our biggest demographic increases are coming from white well educated suburbanites, Hispanics (who are both voting more and voting more Democratic), women (of all colors), and the young (everywhere). Biden is a strong candidate on paper for the older Democratic coalition - he appeals to older, working class whites and to African American voters. So demographically, Biden is a good choice if the goal is to hold on to our existing support; the problem is we need to increase our vote, not just hold on, to win.

In terms of just playing the trends, Kamala Harris is the obvious candidate. She can hold on to and may even drive turnout on African-American voters (Like Joe but unlike Liz), can appeal to women and young (like Liz but unlike Joe), and seems to do well among the well-educated (like Liz but less like Joe). But generally I think it backfires to overthink this, better to focus on who gets your motor revving as the race moves on.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

All of the candidates look like relative midgets right now because there are so many of them. Biden is the exception because he was VP. But more Swalwells will drop out, and some of them will pick up real support, and they will look better, both because of that support but also because some of them will have better chops and the winnowing of the field will reveal that.

Honestly, I don't know who that will be. Already, Buttigieg is clearly performing better than one would have expected from his resume, but how much upside does he still have? Klobuchar and Gillibrand had higher expectations because they were Senators and do not seem to be setting the world on fire. I would have expected more from Inslee, Bullock and Hickenlooper, because I think being a governor sets you up better to run.

My main point is that the process is dynamic, and the candidates are going to change. Some of them are going to grow.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

The most privilegey privilege is being able to pick and choose whose explanation of how you are privileged suits you best.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

ehh, let it sort out. 4 years ago R’s were trying to figure which R candidate could best beat Clinton. They got a candidate no one thought had a chance.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

i'm good with letting it sort out

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Heh:

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Bullshit. We know there was no changing of votes via hacking. Second, Trump’s obstruction failed because none of his subordinates were dumb enough to follow his orders. It was all attempted obstruction. And finally, all of Trump’s obstructive efforts were aimed at avoiding findings that he shared info with Russians regarding DNC data and voter analytics. Nowhere was it even suggested that Russians successfully changed votes except by manipulation. You have no basis at all to argue that we might’ve found that but for Trump’s ineffective attempts at obstruction.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

He’s silly. DiAngelo is not. His goofy/treacly repackaging of her points degrades them.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Warren could crush him in a debate. Eat him alive.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Um, who claimed there was?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

You’ve argued Trump’s obstruction (failed, but never mind that) precluded us from learning how he invalidly acquired his office.

He can only invalidly acquire the office thru hacking or other manipulation of voting machines to change vote counts.

Manipulating voters with lies, or welcoming Russian efforts in that regard, is just politics. (Even If Trump had worked with Russians in that regard, as opposed to merely egging them on and welcoming their assist, his election would still be valid as he received the winning # of votes in the right states. He would be a legitimate President subject to prosecution for working with a foreign govt during campaign.)

You claim Trump obstructed finding something that would prove his election illegitimate. It can’t be welcoming Russian aid. It must therefore be actual changing of votes.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

So did Hil, under normal rules. How is Warren's act with bizarro debate rules?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

How is working with a foreign Gov different than getting Israel support or support from any other country? I'm sure past presidents have encouraged Israel to contact American Jews to campaign?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

And lose in the process.

While she would eviscerate most candidates it wouldn’t be that hard to level Trump though.