Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504133)

You cannot tax the winners in trade (or tech, which I believe is the much bigger job killer) adequately enough to cover the general obligations govt promises to all of its citizens, and also provide special relief to provide a dignified life to those unique millions suffering as result of tech and trade. There's simply not adequate $$$ there.

I'll also note, though I agree with your assessment regarding trade and tech making so many people obsolete, it's quite a cold and defeatist policy to give up and just pay the economically useless for breathing. I prefer a massive debt workout. Cancel all unsecured and student debt. Wipe out the overhang holding us back and transfer trillions from banks and investors straight into Main Street's pockets. I mean, if we're going to talk guaranteed income, we might as well go full radical, no?

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 504138)

And now Jill Stein is raising money for a recount. http://www.wkow.com/story/33783289/2...t-in-wisconsin

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 504137)

Instead of paying people for breathing, pay people for some kind of work, whether it's picking up litter, painting roofs, or digging and filling holes. What you are describing is a one-time hit. What I am groping towards is a different social compact.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504131)

Not if we become an authoritarian dictatorship in the interim, as that bit of doom porn you offered suggests we will.

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 504142)

I'm not a big fan of doom porn, although I like it better than angst porn.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504143)

I live in fear that Sebby is going to advocate porn as an industry to employ his imaginary under-employed hill-willy Trumpster know-nothings (I actually think Trump gets more support from perfectly intelligent and often well employed people who have chosen their blinders for personal comfort and whose rage comes from entitlement, but that's just me). If the unemployed hill-willies really are behind Trump, I don't want to see them in porn.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 504141)

Good luck with that from the Dems. Isn't that work-fare? Or are you limiting it to just apply to Trump voters?

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 504144)

I do enjoy the occasional hillbilly porn. Don't judge. Unless you want to judge. Then judge away. What the fuck do I care. I got a personal note from A Tribe Called Quest (via Spotify) thanking me for being one of the top streamers of their new album, so your judgment to me is like a dying butterfly's fading memory of the anxiety it felt leaving the cocoon.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 504145)

Guaranteed income, but you have to do something constructive to get it. Just an idea. What's your suggestion?

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504146)

On Saturday I tweeted that I wanted to go to a sold out Zoe Keating concert and Zoe saw it and invited me as her guest, so I do not care whether you care or not about me judging you because, shit, man, it doesn't get cooler than Zoe. And she dm'd me.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 504147)

I agree as a concept. BUT don't you have people with kids who can't really work? And rural people where there is no apparent work to do? etc...

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 504149)

Good points. I was trying to solve the problem of jobs. There are other problems too.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 504150)

So you suggest offering jobs for those who can do them, but allowing aid to still flow to those who can't? do you see any potential problems with that?

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 504151)

Seems like if you can't work, you should get SSDI.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504139)

Why is it that the immigrants who drive the lyfts (Hi David Brooks!) I order around the expensive city of Boston seem to be able to figure out how to make it work, get their kids educated, and build a life here but your imagined white dude hanging out on a Main Street in Hokum, PA needs his credit cards cancelled?

Seems like we really need more immigration, maybe more to Hokum so they can show the dude how its done.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504154)

"Fake News" (n.) - Fake news

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 504155)

It is refreshingly straightforward. Here, for your Thanksgiving listening pleasure is a peppy, horn-driven funk blast that can be enjoyed by the whole family or by you alone, hiding in the bathroom with a gin & tonic and with the earbud wires dangling from the iPhone that you stare at relentlessly as if it will somehow produce some of the answers you desperately seek. The Nite-Liters with K-Jee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtBjTdiFsiY

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504152)

What do we do with the administrators of the current transfer/safety net mechanisms. Because removal of those structures is what provides the savings to make guaranteed income possible.

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 504140)

Publicity. Stunt.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504153)

Dollars paid for rents have no multiplier. The kids with loans cancelled will spend, and invest in businesses. Better multiplier. Recall, we've a 66% consumer economy.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 504156)

I believe I've mainstreamed here. I now agree with GGG on politics. I now drink G&Ts after previously saying never.

But let me promise you this, I still think Fringey is the hottest of the FBs, Fringey has always been the hottest of the FBs. I am not changing.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504160)

Nice pivot from imagined white dude in Hokum having credit cards cancelled to the kids with loans. I was thinking the credit cards you were cancelling would mostly be invested in Bud.

There are great arguments for bringing down education costs, forgiving loans, generally making it a priority for investment. Avoids another lost generation among the lumpen-bourgeoisie.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504161)

Hank and I are just a couple of kids from the lower middle class who grew up to be part of the global elite.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504163)

They are. Student debt forgiven for the kids, credit cards forgiven for the doublewide demographic. Both have much better multipliers and social benefits than payments to rentiers.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504165)

Well, this gave me a good laugh.

You think there is a multiplier to a dead-ender with an opiate problem hanging out in a double wide but not an immigrant trying to build a life for his or her family in the city?

https://media.tenor.co/images/33a1a9...29a0d6cc36/raw

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504166)

I was comparing the multiplier of rent payments to consumer spending and business investment. How you shoehorned immigration into the conversation I'm unsure.

But since you did, obviously, no sane person would argue debt forgiveness for oxy addicts is better for the economy than liberal immigration. If you're looking for someone to argue immigration with, I'm not your man. We're in agreement on that issue.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 504167)

The question I started with was how it was that the disgruntled white dude in low-cost Hokum, PA needed his credit card cancelled while the immigrant lyft driver in expensive Boston was getting by and building a life for his or her family.

That was the question I started with, you tried to respond first by pivoting to students and then by pivoting to some thoughts about discharging the Hokum dude's loans would have a better multiplier than helping some rentier (who I assume was my immigrant, though why I don't know).

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504168)

The immigrant's probably carrying debt that holds him back as well. I didn't propose a cancellation of debt for only non-immigrants. I proposed an across the board cancellation. How did you conclude otherwise?

I didn't pivot to shit. I tried to offer something constructive. Why are immigrants building lives in urban areas while oxy addicts in WV not doing so? That's simple. They're hungry and ambitious. All the more reason to let them come in and improve the country.

But that doesn't speak to the issue that preceded your initial post cited above, which was a discussion of the merits of guaranteed income vs. debt forgiveness.

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 504159)

People are free to waste their money as they wish, but the hypocrisy from those who decried Trump's comments on the election being rigged is sad and embarrassing.

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 504170)

And hilariously, a recount at this point, especailly a hand recount as I have been led to believe she is requesting, could result in Wisconsin's electoral votes not counting at all. And now the Hillary campaign is joining in, because voter fraud only is a thing when Democrats lose (especially after the Obama admin said there was no evidence of hacking or Russian influence).

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 504164)

As I know this may be of some importance to you both, if you thought the 12 was too much carmel, Macallan's new Double Cask might be right up your alley. The sweetness is perfectly cut.

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 504170)

And hilariously, a recount at this point, especailly a hand recount as I have been led to believe she is requesting, could result in Wisconsin's electoral votes not counting at all. And now the Hillary campaign is joining in, because voter fraud only is a thing when Democrats lose (especially after the Obama admin said there was no evidence of hacking or Russian influence).

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 504170)

And now the Hillary campaign is joining in, because voter fraud only is a thing when Democrats lose (especially after the Obama admin said there was no evidence of hacking or Russian influence).

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 504174)

I actually thought the statement from Hillary's campaign lawyer was quite sensible -- it acknowledged that the margin is bigger than has ever been changed in a recount, but said that if Stein was going to file for a recount, they would participate.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 504175)

So he doesn't think it adds an aura of credibility? As long as Spacefuck is asking why not join in? I wish he hadn't won but he did and all this noise is detrimental, ultimately.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 504176)

I basically agree with you. Read this and tell me whether you think it's reasonable. I did.

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 504177)

No I don't think it reasonable. People who are anti Trump need to develop a plan of action. Something to increase the odds of D senators being elected in 2018, something to help fight fucking with immigrants, etc. AND educating third party voters what they did here. Recounts or talking about abolishing the electoral college or hoping the electoral college will make hil prez are all pathetic miss directions.